Age Based Catagories?

[Slapshot]

So if 16 and under is a Jr., and 36 and over is a Wrangler what is 17 and over?

 

Just something I noticed in the Shooters handbook and got me curious. Its like they forgot that whole age group from 17-35.

 

[Cholla]

Cowboy/Cowgirl. 

[LASSITER#2080]

Cowboy, any age. Page 5 in the handbook.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

39 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

Just something I noticed in the Shooters handbook and got me curious. Its like they forgot that whole age group from 17-35.

 

There is not one, however, anyone of any age can shoot in the cowboy/cowgirl category.

 

This is an overgeneralization, however....There are folks who say that we need an open category for all the really competitive people to go into. Segregate them into their own category if you will. One of the usual replies is we already have one, called cowboy, where anyone can shoot. Put them there.

 

It is in this instance that folks will bring up what you did in that, if the cowboy age based category is your open category, there is no aged based category for 17-35 after putting all the really competitive people in the cowboy/cowgirl category.

[Slapshot]

1 hour ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

It is in this instance that folks will bring up what you did in that, if the cowboy age based category is your open category, there is no aged based category for 17-35 after putting all the really competitive people in the cowboy/cowgirl category.

Thats kinda what I was thinking . They covered every age group but the 17-35. As I understand the handbook Cowboy/Cowgirl is a open age catagory for any age to shoot in. Just seemed like a oversight to me that the SASS organization would age group everyone but 17-35 age group. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

9 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

Thats kinda what I was thinking . They covered every age group but the 17-35. As I understand the handbook Cowboy/Cowgirl is a open age catagory for any age to shoot in. Just seemed like a oversight to me that the SASS organization would age group everyone but 17-35 age group. 

Yea especially when that's the age group they seem to want to reach!

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

All the other two-handed shooting categories which enforce age limits are the "age-based categories"    Cowboy is a non-age-limited category.   Don't even have to state your age to be allowed to shoot in Cowboy.

 

No oversight, just a way of dividing up shooters which evolved over the years due to popular demand. 

 

good luck, GJ

[Slapshot]

Just seemed strange to make age groups for everyone but those. Everyone has the oppurtunity to compete against people in their age groups except those, who have to shoot Cowboy/Cowgirl and compete against everyone.

 

Just caught my eye is all. Being well into my late 50's doesn't really matter to me. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Cowboy was the category for ALL 2 handed shooters when the game started.  And it still is.  Nothing changed with it.  All the rest (the age-based 2-handed categories) were later add-ons.  So no rules changed on Cowboy category.   Every Cowboy competes against other Cowboys.   Cowboys don't compete against age-based categories.  You gotta stop thinking that Cowboy is an age-based category.  It's JUST a 2-hand shooting style category.

 

good luck, GJ

[Griff]

Evolution of categories in CAS.  I won't say SASS because cowboy action pre-dates SASS.  By a fair number of years.

 

1982 EOT:   Ladies & Men,

1986 EOT:   Ladies, Men, Black Powder (C&B revolvers only) 

1987 EOT:   Ladies, Men, Black Powder, & International

1988 EOT:  Ladies, Traditional, Modern, BP, & International

1989 EOT:  Ladies, Traditional, Modern, BP, International, Junior & Senior

1990 EOT:  Ladies, Traditional, Modern, Frontier Cartridge, International, Junior & Senior (FC replaced BP)

1993 EOT:   Ladies, Traditional, Modern, Frontier Cartridge, International, Junior Boys, Junior Girls & Senior

1994 EOT:  Ladies, Traditional, Ladies Modern, Men's Traditional, Men's Modern, Frontier Cartridge, International, Junior Boys, Junior Girls & Senior

 

1997 EOT:  Ladies, Traditional, Ladies Modern, Men's Traditional, Men's Modern, Frontier Cartridge, International, Junior Boys, Junior Girls, Senior, Frontiersman

1998 EOT:  Ladies, Traditional, Ladies Modern, Men's Traditional, Men's Modern, Frontier Cartridge, Men's International, Ladies International, Junior Boys, Junior Girls, Senior Ladies, Senior Men & Frontiersman

1999 EOT:   Ladies, Traditional, Ladies Modern, Men's Traditional, Men's Modern, Frontier Cartridge, Men's International, Ladies International, Junior Boys, Junior Girls, Senior Ladies, & Senior Men, Frontiersman, & Gunfighter 

EOT 2000:  Ladies, Traditional, Ladies Modern, Men's Traditional, Men's Modern, Frontier Cartridge, Junior Boys, Junior Girls, Senior Ladies, & Senior Men, Gunfighter (International categories dropped)

 

The above is taken from my unofficial records of EOT winners.  EOT was run by the Wild Bunch prior to the formation of SASS.  The categories at EOT reflect the recognized categories.  I'll stop there in 2000 as it starts to become very convoluted with the addition & changes in categories definitions.   First recognition of Buckaroo & Buckarette was in 2005, Cowboy & Cowgirl was in 2009.   

 

 

 

[McCandless]

2 hours ago, Slapshot said:

Just seemed strange to make age groups for everyone but those. Everyone has the oppurtunity to compete against people in their age groups except those, who have to shoot Cowboy/Cowgirl and compete against everyone.

 

Just caught my eye is all. Being well into my late 50's doesn't really matter to me. 

 

Don't forget that most of the age groups have an open top end.  Meaning, if you are a Cattle Baron and you want to shoot with those young whipper-snapper 49ers, you certainly can.

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Maybe 17-35 years olds didn't need any age based category to help them win a trophy?

[Assassin]

1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Cowboy was the category for ALL 2 handed shooters when the game started.  And it still is.  Nothing changed with it.  All the rest (the age-based 2-handed categories) were later add-ons.  So no rules changed on Cowboy category.   Every Cowboy competes against other Cowboys.   Cowboys don't compete against age-based categories.  You gotta stop thinking that Cowboy is an age-based category.  It's JUST a 2-hand shooting style category.

 

good luck, GJ

If I'm not mistaken Cowboy was added around 2008. Traditional and modern were removed. 

 

[Assassin]

Why do we have age based categories if it's not mandated we shoot in our own age group.? 

[Griff]

It was started with the addition of the "Senior" category... the then "us old pharts" didn't want to HAVE to shoot against the younger whipper-snappers.  

[J. M. BROWN, SASS # 27309]

It is to equal out abilities as best as it can. You cannot shoot in a group older than you qualify but you can shoot in a younger one. I for one, until in the last few years, shot in a younger category for the competition and not the easy win but now, I just try and hang in there the best I can in my age group.

 

There was a study done years ago that had an influence on the current Age Based Categories. If I remember it right, it was Black Jack Zack that presented it to the TGs. I believe it related to a study by the USAF (?) that compared age brackets to cognitive and motor skills as we age. What I remember was that up until 60 the decline of those skills took a gradual decline. After 60 every five years made a difference. 

So to keep a 21, 35, 45, etc year old shooter from participating in the class with those 60 and above, age based categories came into being.

As the old group gets older, we add new Categories to let folks compete with those of the same age group (if desired).  

This makes a big difference when you turn 75.

 

JM

 

 

[Colt Laredo]

Cowboy and cowgirl can shoot 2-handed or duelist style and any SASS approved guns.

All that these categories need is a change that allows gunfighter style and they truly become open categories for everyone.

 

That would be a real interesting change and be fun trying to decide which style is best on the each stage setup.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

Winter is officially here!

 

[Diamond Jake]

I like the current setup...lots of choices.  I sometimes use different categories at different matches.

 

I started CAS at age 64.  At my first State match I was shooting in the Senior Category, with only three local matches in my experience.  I was going up against some shooters that had decades of experience.  So being in an older age group doesn't necessarily mean the competition is less.

 

I finished dead last in my category, and 150 out of 170 overall.  and I LOVED every minute!  Made some great friends.

[Roscoe Regulator]

On 1/7/2022 at 9:14 AM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

All the other two-handed shooting categories which enforce age limits are the "age-based categories"    Cowboy is a non-age-limited category.   Don't even have to state your age to be allowed to shoot in Cowboy.

 

No oversight, just a way of dividing up shooters which evolved over the years due to popular demand. 

 

good luck, GJ

But what age group and shooting style shoots with the best times worldwide? Gunfighter category and amazing exceptions notwithstanding, seems like shooters in their youthful prime are all dumped in together, with some having arguably a competitive advantage.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

6 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

But what age group and shooting style shoots with the best times worldwide?

 

And is the point that you think Cowboy/Traditional/Modern/Men (all the names it has been called over the years) needs to be divided once more?   I think not.  The usual Category for speed specialists is Cowboy, with some from Wrangler often winning, too.  It is common in competitive events that there will be a few who have a higher probability of being able to win, due to their skill, determination, dedication, athletic ability, speed and level of practice.   You can call them "Contenders" if you want.  (Will always be that way unless you want to take a sledge hammer to their hands.   )   But that does not make them a new category.

 

I think by now that pards who sign up in Cowboy understand they are shooting with some of the very best.

 

good luck, GJ

[Roscoe Regulator]

1 minute ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

And is the point that you think Cowboy/Traditional/Modern/Men (all the names it has been called over the years) needs to be divided once more?   I think not.  The usual Category for speed specialists is Cowboy, with some from Wrangler often winning, too.  It is common in competitive events that there will be a few who have a higher probability of being able to win, due to their skill, determination, dedication, athletic ability, speed and level of practice.   You can call them "Contenders" if you want.  (Will always be that way unless you want to take a sledge hammer to their hands.   )   But that does not make them a new category.

 

I think by now that pards who sign up in Cowboy understand they are shooting with some of the very best.

 

good luck, GJ

But you make a case for doing away with shooting style divisions in older age group categories.

[Slapshot]

Personally I was thinking if you was going to have age catagories you'd cover all the age groups. I guess in reality they figured that age group didn't need one as they are young and agile enough to just use the open catagory of Cowboy. Matters not to me I'm well past 35. 

[Roscoe Regulator]

44 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

Personally I was thinking if you was going to have age catagories you'd cover all the age groups. I guess in reality they figured that age group didn't need one as they are young and agile enough to just use the open catagory of Cowboy. Matters not to me I'm well past 35. 

There would remain a concern about the appeal and content for younger shooters to sustain the sport.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

3 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

But you make a case for doing away with shooting style divisions in older age group categories.

Nope, I haven't weighed in on THAT topic ever, as far as I know.     You using a royal YOU?

 

The age divisions are relatively new, compared to the shooting styles.  As more elders shoot in shooting styles, I would expect the rules committee to CONSIDER more than just senior age group and more than just duelist and gunfighter styles to have more "age" divisions.  But we now have a generally shrinking sport, so the pressure is less every year to open more categories and require matches to hand out more awards and lengthen any ceremonies.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

This is what happens when an incorrect term is installed into the terminology and becomes nearly impossible to dislodge.

We do NOT have AGE based categories.  

We have STYLE based categories (including equipment, costuming, propellant and handgun handling) with AVAILABLE (but not mandatory) achieved age protections (sub groups).

 

Achieved age is when you have passed a marker accepted as a turning point.

Kind of like when the jerk kid at the movie theater asks me if I want the Senior discount - maybe I have age achieved the availability of it; but I dang sure don't have to accept it. 

 

The premise of such a construct within sports is that youth is the pinnacle of ability

And as a competitor ages; they may experience a decline in eyesight, reflexes, speed, health and ability (we know that generally this is true - of course there are exceptions), and as this aging happens; the AVAILABILTY of an age achieved protection allows the shooter to continue to compete within their chosen style but only against like aged peers.

 

But like my senior discount - while the age protection may be available; you ain't required to take it.

And no matter how much a 19 year old may want my senior discount - they have not age achieved enough to acquire it.

 

The only AGE grouping that you are forced to move out of; are the SUB 18 years of age youth categories.

And I have found a lot of our youths move themselves out early to seek out competition.

 

If we would simply re-order our category names (shooting style - {propellant - if not smokeless} - then CHOSEN age achievement protection {if available} - then GENDER separation {if desired by the female competitor}) and stop with the named age protection being first; this would clear up a lot of folks mis understanding of the game and category system.

 

Gunfighter - Open                                                Shoots handguns gunfighter - any age/ any gender

 

Duelist - Frontier Cartridge - 49+ Female          Shoots handguns duelist - BP cartridge - age grouping 49 years plus - gender separation

 

B-Western - Frontiersman - 60+                         Shoots under the attire and equipment requirements of B-Western - Cap and ball handguns - age grouping 60+ - any gender

 

Simple to understand and utilize.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Diamond Jake]

3 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

...If we would simply re-order our category names (shooting style - {propellant - if not smokeless} - then CHOSEN age achievement protection {if available} - then GENDER separation {if desired by the female competitor}) and stop with the named age protection being first; this would clear up a lot of folks mis understanding of the game and category system.

 

Gunfighter - Open                                                Shoots handguns gunfighter - any age/ any gender

 

Duelist - Frontier Cartridge - 49+ Female          Shoots handguns duelist - BP cartridge - age grouping 49 years plus - gender separation

 

B-Western - Frontiersman - 60+                         Shoots under the attire and equipment requirements of B-Western - Cap and ball handguns - age grouping 60+ - any gender

 

Simple to understand and utilize.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Having style first before age eliminates the ability to choose any shooting style.  I believe the current structure allows you to simple choose the age category and then you are free to use any shooting style you want, except Gunfighter.  I've done it myself many times in Senior and Silver Senior and never had any complaints, penalties, or reprimands on it.  For example, I'll shoot a few stages duelist and then switch to traditional.  I'll shoot some black powder and some smokeless in the same match.  However, if I register as Frontier Cartridge, or Frontier Cartridge Duelist, then I have to stick with that powder/shooting style through the whole match.

 

If it's illegal to switch from styles like I said above, when registered as Silver Senior, please someone let me know.  I might have been breaking the rules and no one noticed!

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

14 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

However, if I register as Frontier Cartridge, or Frontier Cartridge Duelist, then I have to stick with that powder/shooting style through the whole match

 

SHB pg 9

 

Revolvers may be shot two handed or one handed (Duelist style) in Frontier Cartridge category but only one handed in Frontier Cartridge Duelist category. (See Duelist style description for parameters.)

- If shooting Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, only Gunfighter-style or Double Duelist style may be used. (See Gunfighter style description for parameters.)

- Must use blackpowder in all loads (rifle, revolver, and shotgun) - Must use a side-by-side, single shot, or lever action shotgun in the main match stages. 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

37 minutes ago, Diamond Jake said:

 

Having style first before age eliminates the ability to choose any shooting style.  I believe the current structure allows you to simple choose the age category and then you are free to use any shooting style you want, except Gunfighter.  I've done it myself many times in Senior and Silver Senior and never had any complaints, penalties, or reprimands on it.  For example, I'll shoot a few stages duelist and then switch to traditional.  I'll shoot some black powder and some smokeless in the same match.  However, if I register as Frontier Cartridge, or Frontier Cartridge Duelist, then I have to stick with that powder/shooting style through the whole match.

 

If it's illegal to switch from styles like I said above, when registered as Silver Senior, please someone let me know.  I might have been breaking the rules and no one noticed!

Once again; the poor naming nomenclature and structure definition causes more issues.

 

Duelist is an ALLOWED shooting style in EVERY category.

 

BP is an ALLOWED propellant in EVERY category.

 

Women are ALLOWED in EVERY category.

 

Some categories have specific style, equipment prohibitions - but signing up as A does not always preclude doing B.

 

We sometimes get "focused" on the usual or expected outcome and lose sight of the other options.

 

A 60+ female shooter shooting BP cased loads and shoots Duelist style.

"Obviously" she is a Senior Lady Frontier Cartridge Duelist.

 

But maybe not, she is legal in:

 

Duelist (cowboy/ cowgirl, wrangler/ wrangler lady, 49'r/ 49'r lady, senior/ senior lady)

 

Duelist Frontier Cartridge (all of the above age/ gender grouping)

 

All supported categories (these are the current "age" based; we would need a cool name for Supported.  Ranger?)

She is legal to shoot in all of the above age/ gender groupings.

 

And free to interchange duelist with supported and BP with smokeless within all of the achieved age supported categories.

 

[Hendo]

Can a 12 year old shoot as a gunfighter?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

22 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Can a 12 year old shoot as a gunfighter?

 

Yes...in GUNFIGHTER category.

There are no age restrictions on the shooting style, BP, or costume categories.

 

 

[Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963]

31 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Yes...in GUNFIGHTER category.

There are no age restrictions on the shooting style, BP, or costume categories.

 

 

We have a fine young man out here who at 12 is shooting mid teen stages GF. Apparently, he was told he would not be allowed to shoot GF at EOT, as 16 is the min age, so is registered buckaroo. I would think at the very least, he should be allowed to demonstrate his abilities. 

[Hendo]

3 minutes ago, Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 said:

We have a fine young man out here who at 12 is shooting mid teen stages GF. Apparently, he was told he would not be allowed to shoot GF at EOT, as 16 is the min age, so is registered buckaroo. I would think at the very least, he should be allowed to demonstrate his abilities. 

The kid is completely dedicated, too.

[Griff]

48 minutes ago, Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 said:

We have a fine young man out here who at 12 is shooting mid teen stages GF. Apparently, he was told he would not be allowed to shoot GF at EOT, as 16 is the min age, so is registered buckaroo. I would think at the very least, he should be allowed to demonstrate his abilities. 

Whoever told him that is wrong.