Shotgun primers

[Snakebite]

I decided to actually measure the shotgun primers I have on hand. Old Cheddite, New Cheddite, Old Rio G-600, New Rio G-1000, Wolf, Remington, Federal. 

 

 

Cheddite Old Box= .243 (French)

Cheddite New Box= .243 (French)

Rio Old G-600= .244 (Spanish)

Rio New G-1000= .245 (Spanish)

Wolf= .242 (Russian)

Remington STS= .242 (USA)

Federal= .241 (USA)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Rio has long been known to be the largest diameter 209 primer.   And most American production is in the smaller diameters.  Repeats closely the measurements I have seen published before.  Cheddites (by feel when repriming hulls) are only slightly more difficult to seat than are Winchester.  That also confirms accuracy of your measurements.

 

good luck, GJ

 

[Dirty Dan Dawkins]

1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

I decided to actually measure the shotgun primers I have on hand. Old Cheddite, New Cheddite, Old Rio G-600, New Rio G-1000, Wolf, Remington, Federal. 

 

 

Cheddite Old Box= .243 (French)

Cheddite New Box= .243 (French)

Rio Old G-600= .244 (Spanish)

Rio New G-1000= .245 (Spanish)

Wolf= .242 (Russian)

Remington STS= .242 (USA)

Federal= .241 (USA)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Now measure the length and tell us what you get. Some primers are too long for STS hulls. Winchester primers don't always seat flush on STS hulls, just my experience. Some argue it does not matter. I just wonder about gas seal.

[Nostrum Damus SASS #110702]

Interesting, but so many questions will occur to the engineers in this club.

 

Those numbers look pretty consistent with others previously reported.  How many of each did you measure?  10 and then average? 50 and average?  Some mathematically determined statistically significant number?  Just one of each?

 

It looks like you were measuring closer to the outer rim than the inner end.  How far from the rim of did you make your measurements, and how did you control that distance from measuring one primer to the next?

 

They are all made with manufacturing tolerances, both as to diameter and roundness; do you know what those tolerances are for each brand? 

 

Anyway, putting aside all of the interesting nerdy stuff, a poster several years ago measured and found this:

.240 = Rem.

.241 = CCI, Fed,

.242 = Nobel Sport, Win, Wolf,

.243 = Cheddite, Fiocchi,

.244 = Rio.

 

And ShotgunWorld forum member Cerberus wrote all of the following:

Known primer dimensions are:
"A" American Standard 209 =.241"-.242", "E" European Standard .244"-.245"
European Hull Manufacturers OEM and Contract:
Cheddite: Primer Size A
Cheddite, Kemen, Kent Fast Steel, Kent Velocity, Ballistic Products Multi-Hull (w/stepped white base wad), RST, some Eley, Lyalvale, Gamebore White Gold, Hull Cartridge 65mm, English Sporter and DanArms Sport.
USDM Federal Estate & Winchester SuperX Xpert (Bright red hull with gold color steel rim).
Remington Shur-Shot (Australian distribution) http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/foru...338&p=2060404&hilit=+1+3/8+remington#p2060404
UEE/Maxam: Primer Size E
Rio, Diana, Orion, Kemen, some Eley, Lyalvale, Gamebore, Vinci, Venatum, SAGA, Cartuchos GB, Melior, Eley Hawk, Maxam, Suprema.
Nobel Sport: Primer Size E
Nobel Sport, Clever Mirage, Clever Grand Italia, Clever T2.
Fiocchi: Primer Size E
Fiocchi, Ballistic Products Multi-Hull (w/flat gray 7mm base wad); *4/2016 forum member reports Clever 20 gauge are Fiocchi.
Baschieri & Pellagri (B&P): Primer Size E
B&P Proprietary hull using Gordon System cushioned plastic base wad.
Remington Shur-Shot (Australian distribution) http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/foru...338&p=2060404&hilit=+1+3/8+remington#p2060404
US Domestic Market (USDM)
Federal: Gold Medal w/plastic basewad; Top Gun* and Estate* w/wound paper base wad (Dark Maroon with silver color steel head); ***Federal all plastic with .090 base compression formed hull. Primer Size A
Added 4/2016: Federal Import (Rio/MAXAM hull) dark red with gold color steel head marked "12 GA" & "FEDERAL" with 8-point crimp. Primer size is E, factory primer copper cup with silver primer. Fired primers measure .245" at cup. Current boxes are bright red with black label, marked FIELD & TARGET Multi-Purpose Load
Winchester: SuperX (Cheddite), XPert Steel proprietary hulls. Found with two base-wad heights 2.75", 3" and 3.5". Red Tall, White Short. **Winchester AA-HS & Universal, Super Dove, Super Speed all use separate tapered cup base wad, not considered a straight wall hull. Primer Size A
Remington: SP Plastic, Type-6, black or yellow flat plastic base wad. Primer Size A
*Straight wall hulls but not true Reifenhauser due to paper base wad.
**Reifenhauser hulls but not true straight wall due to tapered cup base wad.
*** Straight wall one-piece compression formed hull. Largest capacity 2.75" and 3" hull I know of.

[Snakebite]

I wasn't trying to be scientific, and didn't take a lot of time doing it. I was just putting away another case of primers that came in and thought I would check out what I had and see for myself how different they were. I only measured two from each pack. I started using the European primers when my BSS was having a lot of FTF using Federal Primers. I think it was from a combination of too much material being removed from the lip of the chamber, worn firing pins and weak springs. I bought a box of Cheddite primers and it never again failed to pop the primers. At the time I was still fully into Black Powder. I tried Fiochi primers and had the same luck with them... then the Wolf and Rio.  I got rid of most of my US made Shotgun primers and never looked back. After many years of shooting only BP,  I switched to shooting Smokeless. I now reload my hulls 4 or more times and then toss them. I usually use Remington hulls, a Grey Clay Buster 7/8 wad, a #24 bushing in my Mec 9000 and Extra Lite powder..... although, I've found that just about any fast powder in that bushing will produce a usable light load for this game.  Since I always use the European primers I've never had any problem with a primer backing out.  Works for me. 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

3 hours ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

Some primers are too long for STS hulls. Winchester primers don't always seat flush on STS hulls, just my experience.

 

I load STS hulls exclusively (STS, Nitro, Gun Club, American Clays and Field) and Win 209 primers exclusively.   I've NEVER had a primer not seat fully in the last 15 years of doing this at over 5K loads per year.  From once-fired hulls to hulls fired 20 times.  Some folks do, apparently.  Have heard there's a little extra plastic in the "far end" of the primer pocket that keeps them from getting the primer inserted, so they drill out that plastic. But perhaps this is due to the adjustment of the loader primer ram?  I sure don't have to drill out pockets.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Are Cheddites flat on top or domed like Federals?

[Snakebite]

2 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Are Cheddites flat on top or domed like Federals?

Flat. That is one of the reasons I like them.