Bugler Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Recently my lady inherited her grandfathers H&R top break revolver, nickeled and thought to be a .32 S&W Long....it is not. .38 Short Colt seems to chamber in it properly. The serial number is 81571 and is a 5 shot in pretty good condition. Seems like manufactured in 1904 or so. No marking for caliber on any part of the barrel. My question for all the H&R handgun guru's is...what model is this revolver and would it be safe to fire smokeless powder? I have numerous manuals that suggest 2.5 gr. of Unique and a 158 RNL bullet would be a great start for it. Looks like I will be making some short Colt brass from some .38 Spl....cut to length and go from there.. I know that it would be safe for blackpowder even if it is a smokeless frame. What say you all? Bugler PS. Her grandfathers brother is going to give her the grandfathers doughboy uniform and helmet. He also said that he thought his brother took this gun with him to liberate France. Attached Thumbnails http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=551545&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1641242368 http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=551546&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1641242384 http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=551547&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1641242394 http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=551548&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1641242410 http://smith-wessonforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=551549&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1641242438 Last edited by growr; Today at 01:47 PM. http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/blue_style/buttons/edit.gif http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/blue_style/buttons/quote.gif http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/blue_style/buttons/multiquote_off.gif http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/blue_style/buttons/quickreply.gif http://smith-wessonforum.com/images/blue_style/buttons/reply.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 H&R top breaks manufactured before 1905 are Black Powder only firearms. When H&R started manufacturing pistols proofed for smokeless powders they also started putting caliber markings on the barrel. The lack of caliber markings denotes a Black Powder only gun. Given how weak the top break design was back then and the fact that the pistol is well over 100 years old I would stick with only shooting BP loads in it. I'm betting that it is chambered in 38 S&W and not 38 short colt. If you need some 38 S&W brass let me know and we'll work out a deal. I'll look when I get home and see where I bought my bullets from. I load them using a lee had press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 I agee. It is highly unlikely to be short Colt. Almost for sure .38 S&W. Real easy to tell. S&W brass won’t fit in a short Colt chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Also remember that .38 Short Colt from back then is not what passes for short Colt today. The old rounds used heeled bullets. Thus the bore is more like .375 rather than the .357 used today. But it is probably an S&W. The bore on that is around .361. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 .38 S&W will not chamber into the cylinder, too large of diameter, .38 Short Colts fit perfectly, go figure.......the cylinder of the gun at it's largest hole is .380, the smallest charge hole measures .375 Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Good to know you have determined the caliber. Very unusal for an H&R. When you mention "largest hole" what do you mean? Are the chambers bored straight through, i.e., there is no reduced diameter throat at the front of the cylinder? If so that makes sense as the historic .38 Short Colt used heeled bullets and the chamber would be the same size all the way through. They would have looked like a .22 where the bullet and case are the same diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 40 minutes ago, Bugler said: .38 S&W will not chamber into the cylinder, too large of diameter, .38 Short Colts fit perfectly, go figure.......the cylinder of the gun at it's largest hole is .380, the smallest charge hole measures .375 Bugler I strongly suggest you do a chamber cast and slug the bore. None of my research shows that H&R made a top break before 1905 in any 38 caliber other than 38 S&W. Slugging the bore will tell a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Please post a pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 I have never seen a .38 S&W Long. As far as I know there is no such animal. There is a .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long, but no .38 long version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 4 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: I have never seen a .38 S&W Long. As far as I know there is no such animal. There is a .32 S&W and .32 S&W Long, but no .38 long version. Thanks you are correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Can't see the pics - I was permanently banned from the S&W Forum probably 15+ years ago, and whatever it was, they're still mad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 The cylinder is bored straight through, no step like a .38 spl or .357 would have. Will get correct measurements from bore tomorrow. Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 9 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said: Can't see the pics - I was permanently banned from the S&W Forum probably 15+ years ago, and whatever it was, they're still mad. Were you using your alias? Why do I ask? No reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 .38 S&W will not chamber into the cylinder, too large of diameter, .38 Short Colts fit perfectly, go figure....... Bugler barrel slugs out at .3575 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Pictures we can see would be very helpful. What is the patent date? How long is the barrel? How long is the cylinder? Single or double action? My gut tell me this was originally chambered in 38 rimfire. At some point the cylinder was modified to allow it to chamber 38 SC cartridges that used internally lubed vice healed bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugler Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 barrel length is 3.187 inches long cylinder is 1.125 Single action/double action Pat. dates Oct 4 '87 , May 14 & Aug. 6 '89, April 2 '95, April 7 '96 Bugler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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