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45 ACP Vaquero’s


Ninety Caliber Al, 50218

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I can't comment on the Vaquero's, but I have a set of Uberti Cattleman in 45 Colt that I purchased 45 ACP cylinders for. I shoot them a couple times a year with 45 ACP and they work quite well for me. I wouldn't see why shooting 45 ACP in a Vaquero would be any different with a 45 ACP cylinder.

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I had a convertible Vaquero (old model) about 20 years ago.  Since 45acp headspaces on the case mouth, I found that there was a max length of brass that could be used and if any longer the rim would rub against the recoil shield.  I had to sort my brass before loading it since about 10% or so was too long (I don't recall what that length was).  Never heard of anyone else with that issue so it could have just been that gun.  But if I had another, I would cycle empty brass through it first to be sure.

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I have a pair I got when I was shooting Bullseye pistol before I started shooting Cowboy.  I used them to shoot loads I didn’t like and they worked fine. I also have a Blackhawk with a .45 acp cylinder but I haven’t shot it yet.

 

Randy

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2 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I had a convertible Vaquero (old model) about 20 years ago.  Since 45acp headspaces on the case mouth, I found that there was a max length of brass that could be used and if any longer the rim would rub against the recoil shield.  I had to sort my brass before loading it since about 10% or so was too long (I don't recall what that length was).  Never heard of anyone else with that issue so it could have just been that gun.  But if I had another, I would cycle empty brass through it first to be sure.

I have to agree with Abilene. Before I go to a shoot I take one of my 45 ACP cylinders out and drop each round I am taking into it to make sure they chamber and sit in the cylinder correctly. Most do, but now and then I get one that sits a little high and I'll replace it with another round in my box. That way I don't have to worry about it at the shoot.

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I like 'em. I've actually got four of them, one set consecutive, and all fitted with stag grips. I had a problem with light strikes in one that turned out to be a combination of the hammer nose hitting the frame before the transfer bar/firing pin was all the way forward, and the hammer was dragging badly on the left side. I also bought a second set of .45 acp dies because the revolver rounds were a bit too tight to drop into the chambers without a good push on several of them. If you want to shoot Classic Cowboy, use C45S instead of .45 acp. ;)

BirdsheadVaqueros.jpg

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46 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

I like 'em. I've actually got four of them, one set consecutive, and all fitted with stag grips. I had a problem with light strikes in one that turned out to be a combination of the hammer nose hitting the frame before the transfer bar/firing pin was all the way forward, and the hammer was dragging badly on the left side. I also bought a second set of .45 acp dies because the revolver rounds were a bit too tight to drop into the chambers without a good push on several of them. If you want to shoot Classic Cowboy, use C45S instead of .45 acp. ;)

BirdsheadVaqueros.jpg

Since45 acp head spaces off the case mouth, what if any problems?

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2 minutes ago, Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 said:

Since45 acp head spaces off the case mouth, what if any problems?

No problem with head spacing in any of them. 

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90 I have a ss .45 acp cylinder for a Blackhawk bought at a gunshow in the early 2000s. later on I bought a pair of 4 5/8 Blackhawks and to my amazement the cyl would fit and work perfectly in the ss BH but would not fit in the frame of the blued gun. The ss gun had a freespin in it and that may be the reason the cyl would work. I no longer have either BH so the cyl acts as a pen holder.  Have you contacted Ruger about having an acp cyl fitted, making it a convertible. I know these are not the same as the NMV but they may still have the parts and be willing to make up a cyl. If there are custom parts in the gun they will remove them and take it back to box stock. Liability thing I suppose. I am assuming you are referring to the OM BH which is the same size as the OMV.

I dont really want to sell the cylinder but would be willing to loan it to you for a trial and to give you time to contact Ruger. PM me a phone number if you want and we can talk about it, I am retired so Im available in the day time.

 

Imis

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4 minutes ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

Have you contacted Ruger about having an acp cyl fitted, making it a convertible. I know these are not the same as the NMV but they may still have the parts and be willing to make up a cyl.

 

Imis

Ruger won't fit a convertible cylinder to their single actions unless it was originally made in that configuration.

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The NMV is available now as a convertible and was before the release of the New Model also. 

4 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Ruger won't fit a convertible cylinder to their single actions unless it was originally made in that configuration.

I dont know if they still support the OM Blackhawk Convertible but I would think so. Their parts and service page says they charge $50 for labor to fit a cylinder plus parts. I dont have a recent owners manual with part numbers and costs.

 

Imis

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Correct, if it was made as a convertible and you lost one of the cylinders, they'll fit the missing cylinder to it. If it left the factory as a [.357, .45 Colt, .40 S&W, whatever] ONLY, they won't fit a convertible cylinder to it. 

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1 hour ago, Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 said:

90 I have a ss .45 acp cylinder for a Blackhawk bought at a gunshow in the early 2000s. later on I bought a pair of 4 5/8 Blackhawks and to my amazement the cyl would fit and work perfectly in the ss BH but would not fit in the frame of the blued gun. The ss gun had a freespin in it and that may be the reason the cyl would work. I no longer have either BH so the cyl acts as a pen holder.  Have you contacted Ruger about having an acp cyl fitted, making it a convertible. I know these are not the same as the NMV but they may still have the parts and be willing to make up a cyl. If there are custom parts in the gun they will remove them and take it back to box stock. Liability thing I suppose. I am assuming you are referring to the OM BH which is the same size as the OMV.

I dont really want to sell the cylinder but would be willing to loan it to you for a trial and to give you time to contact Ruger. PM me a phone number if you want and we can talk about it, I am retired so Im available in the day time.

 

Imis

Imis,

Ruger made a run of Birdshead New Vaquero’s in 45 acp. Talo maybe. Anyhow was going to try and find some. At present I don’t own any Ruger’s. Shooting USFA’s these days.

Thx,

Al

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8 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

If you are just wanting the Rugers, that's fine.  But you are mostly just wanting to shoot acp's, Uberti 45acp cylinders should fit your USFA's.

My USFA’s are .38’s.lol

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On 12/22/2021 at 9:24 AM, Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 said:

Looking for feedback from any owners. I’ve decided to try and find a set.

 

I just sold a Ruger Vaquero Special Edition to John Barleycorn at Barleycorn Outfitters.  It was a Stainless-Steel OM Vaquero in 45LC and 45ACP which I had never fired.

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I bought a Ruger Blackhawk in 357 and it came with a 9mm Luger cylinder as well. 

 

The 9mm cylinder would not shoot cast all that well, but no issues with plated or jacketed ammo. I believe this is mostly to do with the small diameter 9mm bullets in a generous 357 barrel. I even honed out the throats to match the groove diameter but was never really happy with it for cast. 

 

In 45 Colt/45 Auto, the bullet diameter would not be in issue. 

 

However, I do wonder about the case mouth battering the cylinder, the front of the chamber. In my 9mm, that had seen a fair bit of use with 9mm, the front of the chambers were peened to the point that they were starting to impede chambering. This is a bit hard to correct for the DIY gun fixer.  45 Auto, being larger in diameter, may not have that issue. What has your experience been with chamber battering?

 

BB

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2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

Have you tried loading 38 spl bullets in your 9mm cylinder? Will they fully seat in the chamber? That is what some ICORE shooters use in S&W double action revolvers and sometimes get better accuracy. 

 

Not scientific, but I did try a few bullets. Any lead bullet would jam into the throat, as the throats were small and there was a lip at the beginning of the throat. Factory fmj ammo would still work fine. I looked at the options to fix the chambers, but most solutions involved expensive reamers or finding a gunsmith. I did think about rechambering for 38 S&W brass but the gunsmith I contacted refused as it would be dangerous to fire a 38 case in the chamber as the chamber would be bigger than spec at the start. IMHO it would not as all it would be is a rimmed 9mm Luger. 

 

I ended up opening the throats to 358, but the cylinder still worked best with factory 9mm Luger FMJ. For the last 3 years that cylinder just sits in the drawer. Obviously the concept got my attention to begin with, but my feeling is that it's a waste of time to fool with it anymore. 

 

BB

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4 hours ago, "Big Boston" said:

In my 9mm, that had seen a fair bit of use with 9mm, the front of the chambers were peened to the point that they were starting to impede chambering. This is a bit hard to correct for the DIY gun fixer.  45 Auto, being larger in diameter, may not have that issue. What has your experience been with chamber battering?

 

BB

I'm not understanding this - the front of the chambers, meaning the ledge the case headspaces on? Peened by... what?? I shoot coated bullets from DG Bullets in my three 9mm convertible Blackhawks with good accuracy and no problems.

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On 12/22/2021 at 3:29 PM, Three Foot Johnson said:

If you want to shoot Classic Cowboy, use C45S instead of .45 acp. 

If you want to shoot Classic Cowboy, you can't use the .45 acp. It requires .40 cal or larger "Rimmed" cartridges. ACP's as we all know, aren't rimmed.

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1 minute ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

If you want to shoot Classic Cowboy, you can't use the .45 acp. It requires .40 cal or larger "Rimmed" cartridges. ACP's as we all know, aren't rimmed.

Correct, that's why you have to shoot C45S in them if you want to shoot CC.

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1 hour ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

I'm not understanding this - the front of the chambers, meaning the ledge the case headspaces on? Peened by... what?? I shoot coated bullets from DG Bullets in my three 9mm convertible Blackhawks with good accuracy and no problems.

 

My theory was that the 9mm case was battering the front of the chamber, exactly the place you describe, "the ledge the case headspaces on". Perhaps the original owner was real cheap and used steel cased ammo. All I know, it was there. Also consider each of the chambers gets battered every time a shot is fired. In addition I have no idea how many rounds the original owner fired, I'm guessing a lot as the forcing cone on the barrel was a bit gas cut. Such are the hazards of buying used. 

 

BB

 

For entertainment purposes, I've attached a short 9mm article.

 

Down the 9mm Luger Rabbit Hole by Ken Dyck.pdf

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A 9mm autoloader chamber gets battered 5 times as much for the same round count as CAS, and a lot harder too, as the round's forward momentum is stopped by headspacing on the ledge as the slide strips it off the magazine and slams shut on it. Steel cases... maybe, but I think it would take many thousands of rounds to do it.

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I'm no forensic investigator, I can only look at the damage and wonder why. 9mm auto barrels don't seem to suffer unduly from all the battering, why should a revolver cylinder. To what extent does the extractor on an auto hold the cartridge back? Is the steel in a Ruger cylinder real steel or just investment cast iron or some powdered metal???

 

I'm like you, baffled and mostly wonder how can this even be a thing. But my battered cylinders is the why I put it out there, to see if anyone else has the had the same experience, with a auto barrel or a auto cartridge cylinder. I'd expect a 45 Auto cylinder to hold up better as the "ledge" is longer.

 

One thing I do know is that the damage was real, not imagined. However I don't know how many rounds it had fired, hundreds? or thousands? From the marks on the cylinder I'd guess under a thousand. Picture: The 9mm cylinder is in the gun. I also don't have any idea if the condition had been there since new because of a flaw or omission in manufacturing.

 

1447252943_3579mmBH.thumb.jpg.e19473a7b79191f7e3afc5647bb88085.jpg

 

 

 

I'd just sell the beast but I've fitted a New Vaquero hammer to it, installed Wolff springs and really like the feel of it. It's a good working gun. doesn't seem to have the propensity to lead and is cowboy accurate.  The dual cylinders make selling easy, and they fetch a few $ more than one without dual cylinders.

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On 12/27/2021 at 12:41 PM, Flying W Ramrod said:

If you want to shoot Classic Cowboy, you can't use the .45 acp. It requires .40 cal or larger "Rimmed" cartridges. ACP's as we all know, aren't rimmed.


45 Auto Rim.  They do exist in the wild.

 

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1 hour ago, Desert Pete SASS #42168 said:


45 Auto Rim.  They do exist in the wild.

 

.45 AR shouldn't work in a stock Blackhawk or Vaquero - the rim is too thick.

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