Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 G'day all, I installed a reduced strength lever safety spring. I'm not sure where the original one allowed the trigger to let the hammer fall, looking at the way the mechanism works I 'think' it would have to be the same distance as now. But for peace of mind I'd thought I'd check with the cowboy pards brain trust. Here's some pics below. That's a small (but it looks larger in the pics) 5/64" drill bit and with the lever pulled up against it and pulling the trigger the hammer will fall. I wish I'd tested it that way with the original in place so I know all's good. I don't want any OOB problems (or any other unforeseen probs). So in a nutshell is all good with the trigger being able to be pulled and hammer falling when the lever is 5/64" away from full closure? I've looked and looked and looked at how the mechanism work as stated above and can't see how a lightened spring could change the distance.....but am I missing something? I'd rather not go through the whole process of taking the rifle apart again and installing the factoring spring just to check that distance if I don't have to. Thanks in advance (and hope I've made a semblance of sense in my question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 If the trigger will operate only when half the tail of the safety (or less) is proud of the tang surface, I'd call that good to go. That means the toggles will be straight and locked. And the bolt has pushed the cartridge to within a tenth of an inch of fully chambered. And it takes more than just brushing the tail of the safety with your hand to let hammer fall. Looks pretty good to me where it is. Just changing the safety spring does not alter the "disengagement point" on the lever safety. Should be the same as factory set it. I like to round off the very tip of the trigger a little to remove the "spear point" which often catches the trigger finger of a sloppy-timing operator. And we almost all get a little sloppy sometimes. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: If the trigger will operate only when half the tail of the safety (or less) is proud of the tang surface, I'd call that good to go. That means the toggles will be straight and locked. And the bolt has pushed the cartridge to within a tenth of an inch of fully chambered. And it takes more than just brushing the tail of the safety with your hand to let hammer fall. Looks pretty good to me where it is. Just changing the safety spring does not alter the "disengagement point" on the lever safety. Should be the same as factory set it. I like to round off the very tip of the trigger a little to remove the "spear point" which often catches the trigger finger of a sloppy-timing operator. And we almost all get a little sloppy sometimes. good luck, GJ Thanks GJ, appreciated. Looking at the toggle links and the bolt (over and over again) an empty cartridge is definitely seated as far as it will go when the lever safety is disengaged and the trigger allows the hammer to fall. Pretty sure all is good, I can't see how I've changed how the mechanism works ...... and that was a damn clever mechanism invention for 1873. Looking at the innards of one of these wonderful rifles when its all laid out on your work bench, its impossible not to admire the design and the machining that went into these back in the day with the machinery that was on hand to them (even the lighting over their benches and design tables!). Your bit that I put in bold above, that could save a nasty impaled finger. Something that hadn't crossed my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 PM sent. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 File the 'strut' down enough to remove the radius. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 If anyone has their '73's close by, can you have a look at how far away your lever is from closed when you can pull the trigger and the hammer is able to fall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: If anyone has their '73's close by, can you have a look at how far away your lever is from closed when you can pull the trigger and the hammer is able to fall? All of the 73's we have let the hammer fall in the range of what you have shown in your first post. You should be good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 minute ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said: All of the 73's we have let the hammer fall in the range of what you have shown in your first post. You should be good to go. Thanks J.S appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 19 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: If anyone has their '73's close by, can you have a look at how far away your lever is from closed when you can pull the trigger and the hammer is able to fall? Bear, I just checked my two Ubertis. The trigger breaks before the lever hits the bottom tang, about the same amount of strut showing as yours, maybe a little less. The important point, I think, is what Joe mentioned earlier; if the links are straight out then you're good to go. I would take off the right side plate and see if the links are straight out before the block behind the trigger is clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 8 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: File the 'strut' down enough to remove the radius. OLG G'day OLG, not sure exactly what the strut is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: Bear, I just checked my two Ubertis. The trigger breaks before the lever hits the bottom tang, about the same amount of strut showing as yours, maybe a little less. The important point, I think, is what Joe mentioned earlier; if the links are straight out then you're good to go. I would take off the right side plate and see if the links are straight out before the block behind the trigger is clear. Thanks Tex, much appreciate the reply and really appreciate you taking the time to check your two rifles for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: G'day OLG, not sure exactly what the strut is? The part that the lever contacts when closing. What you had the drill next to. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 20, 2021 Author Share Posted December 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: The part that the lever contacts when closing. What you had the drill next to. OLG This part? The sharp part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Yup, the part protruding through the bottom of the receiver. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Quote not sure exactly what the strut is What he is calling "strut" is the tail of the lever safety sticking through the lower tang. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 Here's a video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 Take .030 off of the part that contacts the lever. That's a imperial measurement, don't know what to call it in metric. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Take .030 off of the part that contacts the lever. That's a imperial measurement, don't know what to call it in metric. OLG In metric, it is "a tad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: In metric, it is "a tad" Isn't that half of a smidgen OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 In 'Australian'.....it would be a pubic hair......and I kid you not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I would not file a thing. You replaced the lever safety spring but not the safety bar, right? if so, nothing changed on the position of the lever where the safety bar moves far enough so the hammer will drop due to you installing a lighter spring. All of mine let the hammer fall at the same point your rifle will. If you file too much off, the lever won't move the safety bar enough to fire the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I checked mine with feeler gauges and verified with a micrometer. Mine drop between, .070" and .075". Your rifle is very close to these rifles. I never had any issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said: I checked mine with feeler gauges and verified with a micrometer. Mine drop between, .070" and .075". Your rifle is very close to these rifles. I never had any issue. That's around .078" roughly mines going off at. Thanks J.S, appreciated immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 54 minutes ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said: I would not file a thing. You replaced the lever safety spring but not the safety bar, right? if so, nothing changed on the position of the lever where the safety bar moves far enough so the hammer will drop due to you installing a lighter spring. All of mine let the hammer fall at the same point your rifle will. If you file too much off, the lever won't move the safety bar enough to fire the rifle. THIS^^^ If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 It is working FINE. Bear quit sweating every little MINOR detail. I would not remove any material. Especially if parts are hard to get down under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 why mess with something that is working ? just askin , but it gets expensive replacing messed with parts that are working just fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 13 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said: It is working FINE. Bear quit sweating every little MINOR detail. I would not remove any material. Especially if parts are hard to get down under. Ok, I must be coming across as wearing a blouse and skirt? I did wear a kilt in army cadets at the private prestigious military type boarding school I attended in Sydney. Just asking the brains trust if all's good. I've put some new parts in and its very slick. I can lever the action now (cocking the hammer) easily using my little finger. I need to eventually work on another maybe 4-5 Uberti rifles and I haven't even begun on the vaqueros (which are going to be very numerous) one shotgun is now as slick as anything though). Its new to me, I haven't been doing this for 5-10-15-20 years like a lot of others with these CAS firearms, but I'm 'in' now boots an all. There also ain't an expert CAS gunsmith in every neighbourhood which is what it seems sometimes to an Aussie reading the wire. There's not also some CAS expert(s) in the club I can go to and crack a beer and shoot the sh#t over a workbench working on these firearms and be taught and shown in person. I'm the one that's kicked off CAS in the club and running it and its taken off like a brush fire in a ten year drought. I don't have an ego that prevents me from asking for help or asking 1001 questions .....and I really appreciate the help and advice that I've gotten (both in public and via PM) that I have gotten from so many pards here that I will most likely never have the chance to meet in person or ever be able to pay them back for the time that they've given me. I know this is probably boring and old hat to a lot and has been asked and done to death. Where I live is akin to livin' in the desert in regards to CAS and I'm just asking for the odd drink (or long swig) of water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 On 12/19/2021 at 7:40 PM, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: I like to round off the very tip of the trigger a little to remove the "spear point" which often catches the trigger finger of a sloppy-timing operator. And we almost all get a little sloppy sometimes. good luck, GJ This is excellent advice. Also pack some band-aids in your kit, because it's not a matter of if, but when. 7 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said: This part? The sharp part? And yes, unsharp that pointy part, too. Trust me, in stock form it can be like getting attacked by a staple puller on meth if you get your finger in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 PLUS ONE for Pettifogger and all the guys that said LEAVE IT ALONE. Per your short video, it's working EXACTLY as it's suppose to. NO WAY should you take a file to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 If you file off part of the tail on the lever safety, you INCREASE the probability that the gun will not fire reliably every time you pull the trigger. It's as safe as the design will make it just as the factory machines the parts. But shortening the tail means the lever has to be consistently even more tightly closed than the factory designed. And removing the lever safety (even worse mistake for most shooters) means you don't have the design developed back in the 1870 period of the blocking of trigger motion until the lever is closed and the toggle links are locked (leads to out of battery firing when you try to go fast but don't yet have perfect muscle memory of how to lever-then-trigger). As said above, leave it alone. Other than putting the lighter (mousetrap torsion) spring in, which you have already done. good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 I checked a new, unmodified Winchester (Miroku) '73 earlier today and the gap looks about the same as yours. Don't mess with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 21, 2021 Author Share Posted December 21, 2021 9 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: I checked a new, unmodified Winchester (Miroku) '73 earlier today and the gap looks about the same as yours. Don't mess with it. Thanks Tex, appreciate you checking yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted December 22, 2021 Share Posted December 22, 2021 On 12/20/2021 at 9:32 PM, Buckshot Bear said: In 'Australian'.....it would be a pubic hair......and I kid you not. Or a fly s*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted December 23, 2021 Author Share Posted December 23, 2021 Did some practice yesterday arvo, wow.....what a difference those whisper springs and some other tuning does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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