Slapshot Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Been thinking about getting one for awhile now. For those of you that use them what do you like. What caliber .36 or .44? 1851, 1860, or 1858? Do you run conversion cylinders or just stick to the cap n ball cylinder? What powder do you use? BP or sub, preferred brand? Where do you get caps? Can't find any in stock anywhere....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Each to their own but the Ruger Old Army is hard to beat..look good, feel great in the hand & super reliable, I luv' em but that's just my opinion. For a pistol basically produced for Cowboy they are pretty darn good... Real BP for me with Rem # 10 caps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Slapshot said: Been thinking about getting one for awhile now. For those of you that use them what do you like. What caliber .36 or .44? 1851, 1860, or 1858? Do you run conversion cylinders or just stick to the cap n ball cylinder? What powder do you use? BP or sub, preferred brand? Where do you get caps? Can't find any in stock anywhere....... Just keep buying and shooting them until you figure it out. I've got a laundry basket load of them and ain't got enough yet. Unless you cast your own balls from lead you've found, make your own powder and caps, shooting cap guns are expensive. Right now, sources for any of the components are few, far between and at scalper's prices. Running conversion cylinders is popular. But I'd just pull a ready built sixgun out of the safe before I'd go that route. That said, 36 caliber is cheaper to feed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 You'll have to try them all to see what works for you. I've tried all of them and wound up keeping my Ruger Old Armys, and my 1860s. I prefer thinner grips on Navy grip frames. Other people will prefer Army grips. I've shot both 36 and 44. I eventually settled on 44 as there are fewer issues with inattentive spotters. I prefer to have dedicated C&B guns and dedicated cartridge guns. If you are thinking about conversion cylinders then 44 is the caliber of choice at it will shoot 45 Colt with no issues. 36 caliber C&B pistols have a 375 bore and shooting 38s down them can cause issues with leading. I cast my own round balls but you can buy them from http://www.whyteleatherworks.com/BigLube.html. Hunt around and you can find caps. Shop where they sell a lot of muzzle loader supplies. When you find them buy all they have. Remington #10 are very hard to find. RWS and CCI are out there and will work. Slix, Treso, or Ampco nipples are a must. Any powder will work but I would stay away from Pyrodex as it is by far the most corrosive. I have shot Tripple 7, APP, and real BP. Real BP is the most fun as you get lots of flames but I shoot T7 and APP at monthly matches as I have a lot of it and it is easier to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I have a pair of Pietta 1858's with the 5.5" barrels in .44. I normally use 2f Triple 777. I added Treso nipples and they are pretty reliable as long as I seat the cap correctly. Avoid Pyrodex it causes rust to occur very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 .44 is the way to go! I started with 58 Remington's, I now have 51's and 60's all made by pietta. I shoot my 60's the most they fit my hands better. I also have Richard mason cartridge conversions, basically the same gun but made for cartridges. For powder I have tried most, settled on real black or app. Real black requires a few extra steps, a lubed wad for caps or lubed bullet for suppository. App just powder and ball clean up is way easier with app, I have shot a 3 day match with nothing more than a quick range wipe down. Caps Remington#10 will be your best bet if you find some buy all you can. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Pietta. 1851s. 5-1/2". .44. Real BP ONLY No conversion cylinders. Good luck finding caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I like the Remmy Family best (1858, Ruger OA (sort of), Whittney and Spiller and Burr), for 36 go with the spiller and burr unless you have big hands or want an oversized gun, it's smaller than a 51, sized like a proper 36 cal, not like the Remmy 36 cal clones built on a 44 frame. Remmies generally have half the screws of a Colt which I find attractive when I'm doing a full takedown and clean (I usually do a full take down and clean as I shoot pyrodex as it's all that is available locally and I haven't started making real BP yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I don't like Ruger Old Army, too heavy. I don't like Remington, they beat the snot out of my social finger. I don't like Uberti, way to involved to set up for CAS. I shoot Pietta Cap Guns. Heavily tuned for reliability (See Pettifoggers Articles). I like .36s but with round ball spotters seem to be blind and deaf. Primary guns are Pietta .44s. Either 1860s or 1851 .44s. I well understand a '51 .44 is a never never but who cares. My guns are also SNUBBIES. Maximum fun factor. I refer APP. No lubes to fool around with. Easy clean up and much easier to find (Bullets by Scarlett ). I shoot Round Ball in the .44s (.451 Swaged) and bullets (EPP UG - 36) in 36s. EPP UG is a little heavier and give as nice satisfying KLANG on the targets. Once you start on The Dark Side, Resistance is Futile. You Will Be ASSIMILATED NEAR FORGOT: SlixShot nipples and Remington #10 Caps. Caps are currently fun to find but hand in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapshot Posted December 17, 2021 Author Share Posted December 17, 2021 Thanks everyone for the advice. I didn't have a clue but am leaning now towards 51 sheriff in 44, or a 1858 sheriff. Thinking APP if I can convince myself to bite the bullet and pony up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I shoot both 1858 Remingtons and ROAs and prefer the ROAs, but they are heavy. I once owned an 1858 in .36 and it was heavy too. I have conversion cylinders but rarely use them. Buy stainless steel revolvers if you can. Less chance of rust if you shoot a corrosive propellant. I find stock nipples on ROAs adequate but replaced the nipples on the 1858s. I shoot Triple Seven and APP in these revolvers at local matches but use real black powder at Plainsman matches for more positive ignition. Pyrodex is my absolutely last choice of a propellant. My local source of Remington #10 caps was Sportsmans Warehouse but they have not had any for over a year. I now cast my own round balls as commercial balls are expensive. I like loading using a loading stand. I use 15 grains of powder and a filler when shooting static targets but use stouter charges for knockdowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I'm running Pieta 1860's. I installed nipples from "Track of the Wolf" which so far have worked perfect with Rem. #11 caps, the same as my percussion rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Slapshot said: Thanks everyone for the advice. I didn't have a clue but am leaning now towards 51 sheriff in 44, or a 1858 sheriff. Thinking APP if I can convince myself to bite the bullet and pony up. Hands down the most fun guns and most natural feeling of my handguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 If you want to save time at the range and at a match, paper cartridges can be loaded beforehand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Angus McPherson Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 What caliber: I like .44's because you can get more powder in them for a bigger boom. However, I really like the look and feel of the '51 Navy, so I usually shoot .36's. Yeah, they make '51's in .44, but, well, you know, not historically correct. That's my hangup. It doesn't have to be yours. 1851, 1860, 1858: Per above, I really like the '51 Navy. Second choice would be the '60 Army. I'm one of the few that does not like the Ruger Old Army. I think they are ugly and just don't "look right". Reports from more serious shooters is that they are dead reliable. I just don't like them. If the Colt clones are slightly less reliable I'm ok with that. The only thing on the line is a few seconds on the clock. Real BP all the way. Brand: Whatever is cheapest. I don't own conversion cylinders. I'd probably use them on occasion if I did. With BP of course. Caps? Boy Howdy, good luck with that. I'm lucky enough to have some on hand to get me through next year. RE: .36 caliber. I don't think I've lost any hits to spotters that couldn't hear the "ding". If I did? Meh, I still had a lot of fun. I haven't met a knock down that wouldn't go down when hit with one. You're going to have a blast. Black Angus McPherson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc McCoy, SASS #8381 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I have an assortment of pairs. My Cimarron 1860s 8" with Tresso nipples are the oldest. Next is Cimarron 1861s 7.5" with Slix Shot nipples, 1851s 4" with Slix, Walkers with Tresso. I use FF in the 44s and FFF in the 36s. Goex was my standard, or Old Ensford, and now whatever brand of real BP I find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawhorse Kid Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Currently the conversion cylinders for the 51/60 .44 are out of production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 After you sort thru all the noise above... here's the straight shot. If you like the Colt grip frame, you'll probably like one of the C&B revolvers that has a similar one. If you like the Remington 1875 or 1890 grip frame, you'll probably be more comfortable with the Remington 1858 (or clone). If you absolutely don't care about history, you're probably a Ruger Old Army candidate. If you're gonna shoot a cartridge... buy a cartridge gun. You'll be shooting in a suppository shootist category anyway... (Doing a thing halfway is just like not doing it at all). Remember this: A C&B revolver in either .36 or .44 is legal in any category... Suppository guns are not! .44s ring targets better than .36s. (Spotters are mostly former baseball umpires and are wearing hearing protection...) Since the formerly most popular and abundant BP, (Goex), just went off the market, you'll probably end up using a sub. DO NOT USE smokeless in any percussion revolver. Make that the absolutely most important LAW in your mind. Even of higher magnitude than that "obey your wife" part of your vows. Feel free to ignore any of the above... but do so at your own peril. FWIW, I've safely, shot BP in C&B revolvers in this sport since 1987. Oh, BTW, be prepared to either work on or have your guns worked on for them to dead-nuts reliable and trust worthy. That goes for whichever brand/mdl you buy. Same goes for rifle & shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 12 hours ago, Slapshot said: Been thinking about getting one for awhile now. For those of you that use them what do you like. What caliber .36 or .44? 1851, 1860, or 1858? Do you run conversion cylinders or just stick to the cap n ball cylinder? What powder do you use? BP or sub, preferred brand? Where do you get caps? Can't find any in stock anywhere....... One more suggestion, if you find you like shooting cap & ball, do a search for a supplier who sells cast round ball. Buying the swaged round balls at retail prices isn't cheap if they can even be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I got a Pietta 51 in .36 caliber. I just shoot it once in a while for some fun! Not shooting it in any matches. It fits my hand the best and I like the mild recoil! Wild Bill like them too only he had real Colts!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Call Saul Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I don't shoot BP at the matches but for giggles picked up a Colt 2nd Gen 1860 army... They are fun. I am only shooting it for fun, so don't plan to do any work on it or nipples... had a 40 years old hand spring snap in half after first 3 cylinder loads and just replaced it. Powder valley had RWS 1075+ caps and Shutzen black powder in stock couple weeks ago... So far I shot with Pyrodex - and washed right away with the solvent... but now i have real BP to try next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxahachie Kid #17017 L Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 If I was just getting into shooting the cap & ball revolver (I started in 1964)...I would get an Uberti 1851 Navy, in .36 caliber. Reasons: .36 is less expensive to shoot, than the ".44" caliber revolvers. You use less powder, and smaller bullets. The recoil is less. The Colt design, with the large arbor, or cylinder pin, is less prone to fouling as quickly, as the Remington design. The 1851 Navy has a similar grip frame as the 1873 Colt single action revolver. The cool factor is: it has an octagonal barrel (but so does the Remington design). However, as long as you stick to a steel frame revolver, and not a brass frame revolver, you really can't go wrong. I will say that, if you are just starting out, I would not recommend a LeMat revolver, or a Patterson. Stick with the Colt, or Remington designs, at first anyway. My Two Bits. W.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pee Wee #15785 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 I started shooting a 1860 Army about 1965, in 1970 I bought a Navy Arms Reb in .36 and have not looked back. I have a pair of 2nd gen Colt 1860 Stainless Steel Armies, several other C&B guns ie Petia 1860's with 1851 grips which Colt did. Several 2nd gen Colt 1851 Navies in .36, Uberti Navy .36's, ROA's, and LeMatts. I have loaded and shot the Navies in a 2" downpour and the went bang with the hammer dropping on a cap. Had to load under my hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapshot Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 Wow can't tell y'all how much I appreciate all of the info. I'm trying to take it all in as I know nothing about the BP route. It gets a little overwhelming trying to decide which way to go or not to go, LOL. I do know I want to get one and try it. I think it would be fun and I pretty much like all of the models out there. I guess that is the fun in it, trying out all the different ones. I like the shorter 1860's and both the long and short Navies. The 1858's definitely the under 5.5" ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 45 minutes ago, Slapshot said: Wow can't tell y'all how much I appreciate all of the info. I'm trying to take it all in as I know nothing about the BP route. It gets a little overwhelming trying to decide which way to go or not to go, LOL. I do know I want to get one and try it. I think it would be fun and I pretty much like all of the models out there. I guess that is the fun in it, trying out all the different ones. I like the shorter 1860's and both the long and short Navies. The 1858's definitely the under 5.5" ones. If you were local I'd offer to let you shoot my revolvers. Try to borrow and shoot other shooter's cap and ball revolvers and find out what you like. You will have preferences. Don't be in a hurry to buy because until you find some percussion caps you won't be shooting anyway. Be shopping for percussion caps! Finding propellant should be easier. BTW, the Duelist1954 channel on YouTube has many useful videos on black powder firearms. The Darkside is calling you. Resistance is futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cemetery Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 I shoot 44/45's. Ruger Old Army's Uberti 1860's Pietta 1851's I used .36 snubbies for one monthly match, never used again. I've used real black, Triple 7, and APP. I'm moved over to APP for ease of availability, and ease of cleanup. Last time I purchased caps was a few years ago in major bulk. For caps now, it looks like people will need to purchase kits where you can make your own out of beverage cans (beer/soda/whatever) and mix the chemicals and basically do it yourself. Months back, somebody posted a link from a seller of such a kit, not sure who it was John Boy maybe? Very slow and tedious process, perfect project for a rainy day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxahachie Kid #17017 L Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 A couple more things you need to know and do. 1. Never use a petroleum based oil, or lube, on any firearm that uses, or is made for black powder. Never!!! Use SPG, or Rand CLP. 2. Obtain a small wooden dowel rod, not very long, and when you place the cap on the cone (nipple), use the dowel rod to lightly push the cap on, and snug it up. NEVER use your finger, or thumb to do this. If the cap goes off, you will ruin your finger/thumb. Use the dowel rod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Slapshot said: Wow can't tell y'all how much I appreciate all of the info. I'm trying to take it all in as I know nothing about the BP route. It gets a little overwhelming trying to decide which way to go or not to go, LOL. I do know I want to get one and try it. I think it would be fun and I pretty much like all of the models out there. I guess that is the fun in it, trying out all the different ones. I like the shorter 1860's and both the long and short Navies. The 1858's definitely the under 5.5" ones. Find someone near you that is shooting C&B pistols. I guarantee ocne you try it you’ll be hooked. Don’t worry the ear to ear grin is not permanent. Just be aware it comes back every match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeaconKC Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 While these are not C&B, ask if someone at your club has some opentop conversion guns. These will have the same feel and balance of the grip sizes. You might find that you love the feel of one or the other, or maybe hate the feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapshot Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 Thanks never thought about the caps and using a dowel. Dave I hope I get to feel that grin before long. I've thought about the open top conversion revolvers as I really like the look of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slapshot Posted December 18, 2021 Author Share Posted December 18, 2021 Ok so what exactly do you use with a BP revovler to clean it? What product out there will clean the gun but not be petrolium based? I got Rand CLP but that else will clean and protect the revovler from rusting? More than likely I'm going to start out with APP. I won't to learn the ins and outs of using it and real BP as far as clean up and care for the firearms afterwards. I'm also planning on loading some CB45 specials with APP for my SS Vaqueros. Not sure how the Rossi would work with it. I still hav eto check out the duelist1954 chanel on you-tube but I'm currently offshore and you-tube is blocked although we do get around on some days. Where can I find the Pettifogger's articles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted December 18, 2021 Share Posted December 18, 2021 Soap and water for clean up, cheap and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxahachie Kid #17017 L Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 4 hours ago, Slapshot said: Ok so what exactly do you use with a BP revovler to clean it? What product out there will clean the gun but not be petrolium based? I got Rand CLP but that else will clean and protect the revovler from rusting? More than likely I'm going to start out with APP. I won't to learn the ins and outs of using it and real BP as far as clean up and care for the firearms afterwards. I'm also planning on loading some CB45 specials with APP for my SS Vaqueros. Not sure how the Rossi would work with it. I still hav eto check out the duelist1954 chanel on you-tube but I'm currently offshore and you-tube is blocked although we do get around on some days. Where can I find the Pettifogger's articles? Rand CLP will clean it and protect it. To clean them I also use warm soapy water, and then follow it up with Rand CLP. Swab the bore, occasionally, with SPG lube, when at a shooting session, and you may need to break the revolver down, and clean up the arbor (cylinder pin), of the black powder fouling. Then lube the arbor with SPG, or Rand CLP. The "CLP" stands for "clean, lube, protect". It is micro-infused, meaning it gets into the metal, for better protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 For cleaning I use Moose Milk ( 1 part Balistol 9 parts water) or PAM (equal parts Murphy Oil Soap, Hydrogen Peroxide, Alcohol) and lots of hot water for cleaning, Lubricants Grease; Mobil 1 red synthetic Oil: Mobil 1 30 wt oil, or Balistol depending on the application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 Most important thing to keep in mind when shooting C&B pistols. Things will go perfectly. Things will go horribly wrong Train Wrecks will happen. Some will the stuff of legends It will take an eternity for the smoke to clear enough to see a target. Spotters will call a miss when you are 1000% sure it was a hit. Spotters will call a stage clean when you are 1000% sure you had a miss. Learn to embrace the good as well as the bad and laugh it all off. If you can't do this, C&B pistols may not be for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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