Buckshot Bear Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 Dear Sporting Shooters, It has been quite some time since our last propellant update. We would like to assure you, the factory continues to run at maximum capacity, 24 hours a day, 5 days a week, and we’re supplying as much propellant to the market as possible. Any difficulty in accessing our propellants is due to unprecedented demand and not a reduction in manufacturing or supply to the Australian market. Below is an update on our propellants and the popularity/frequency of manufacture for each. Trail Boss – This propellant is unlikely to be released in 2022 as there continues to be an active research and development project associated with its manufacturing optimisation. APS Propellants – As we’ve previously informed, we’ve had to make the incredibly difficult decision to pause active development projects and cease production of commercial reloading products under the Australian Pistol & Shotgun (APS) range for the foreseeable future. ADI World Class would like to thank you for your continued support. We wish you a happy and safe New Year. http://www.adiworldclass.com.au/2021/12/16/propellant-update/?fbclid=IwAR3NTDaJzWLWMRr4tr2_embwbGCGIxfi6TuvQp_i7qi3VLu182MX75oICWM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 Well this is a major bummer. I need me some Trail Boss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Well this is a major bummer. I need me some Trail Boss! Look for Unique or WW231 OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 If they’re running 24/5 and not making powder then what are they making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I'm a long ways from being a propellant expert. But my quest for reliable and consistent reloads has led me to try different powders. Some of the trials were because of availability, sometime it was because of a score on some obscure or obsolete powder. As I became more experienced and began testing loads over a chrony, I learnt a bit more about primers as well. In an attempt to simplify the powder magazine, I have transitioned to loading more and more with Trail Boss. IMHO it is not a magic powder, however it does a pretty good job in a variety of calibers. However, it does have a few characteristics that you can't ignore. One being that it tends to be a bit inconsistent in ignition under 70% load density, and it seems to prefer some primers over others. It is also fairly inefficient, for any given velocity, the pressure is high. It's the combination of high(ish) pressure and a lower velocity that makes it useful for cowboy loads. Even if bullet fit is a bit on the loose side, enough obturation occurs to limit leading. I'm in the same dilemma as most cowboys. I have about a # of Trail Boss left, and the shelves are empty. Although not a direct substitute for Trail Boss, Red Dot does possess a few of the same characteristics. It is a "fluffy" powder, about 65% denser than TB. It is a bit less fussy on the primer, but it does get erratic when loading density gets down there. IMHO loading density is one of the properties that I'll be focusing on, so, depending on it's density and reputation those will be the powders I'll gravitate to. That list is fairly long, there are a few powders in the higher nitroglycerine content and low density arena, The only issue with to high a nitroglycerine content is that the flame temperature tends to be a bit high. This can contribute to leading at lower velocities than a cooler burning powder, but this is not a significant factor until pressure and velocity are high(ish). I sorted the powders by VMD ( "The Volume Measured Density (VMD) of a powder is the volume in cc's (cubic centimeter) that one grain of powder occupies. This can be used to calculate the dipper, disk cavity or powder measure setting required to obtain a desired weight of powder." LEE Precision ) VMD/Powder Manufacturer .2172 IMR TRAIL BOSS Hodgdon .1489 ALNT E3 Alliant .1462 CLAYS Hodgdon .1446 IMR GREEN Hodgdon .1423 IMR RED Hodgdon .1413 RED DOT Alliant .1349 A NITRO100 Western .1343 IMR 700X Hodgdon .1341 AMER-SELECT Alliant .1331 SOLO 1000 Western .1300 TITEWAD Hodgdon .1296 WIN AA PLUS Hodgdon .1278 R COMPETITION Western .1266 WIN AA LITE Hodgdon .1266 INTERNATIONAL Hodgdon .1262 GREEN DOT Alliant .1205 wSUPER-TAR Hodgdon .1205 IMR PB Hodgdon .1196 IMR TARGET Hodgdon I'll be focusing on the top 10 of the list, and expand my search if those aren't suitable. I think that may be where the most success may lay. I'll use my Trail Boss for those applications where it works significantly better than other propellants. Trail Boss shines above the rest in the 44 Mag, 44-40 and 45 LC. In 38 Spl, the list of suitable powders is fairly large. I still have about 8 #s of AA452 left, it is right at home in the 38 Spl and Colt 45 Auto. I should burn it off before it gets too old anyways. VMD Sorted.xlsx BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Ethan # 94321 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I have about 4lbs of Trail boss. Just purchased 10lbs of WW 244. Loading 38s. Now none of this matters without primers. Should have enough of them to last until this time next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 I picked up some HP-38 for my pistols but still have some bullseye. I have a little trail boss left but picked up some titegroup to try in my 357s. Then there is the case of APP3f Scarlett sent me. More primers are always appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Plowboy Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 hour ago, "Big Boston" said: I'm a long ways from being a propellant expert. But my quest for reliable and consistent reloads has led me to try different powders. Some of the trials were because of availability, sometime it was because of a score on some obscure or obsolete powder. As I became more experienced and began testing loads over a chrony, I learnt a bit more about primers as well. In an attempt to simplify the powder magazine, I have transitioned to loading more and more with Trail Boss. IMHO it is not a magic powder, however it does a pretty good job in a variety of calibers. However, it does have a few characteristics that you can't ignore. One being that it tends to be a bit inconsistent in ignition under 70% load density, and it seems to prefer some primers over others. It is also fairly inefficient, for any given velocity, the pressure is high. It's the combination of high(ish) pressure and a lower velocity that makes it useful for cowboy loads. Even if bullet fit is a bit on the loose side, enough obturation occurs to limit leading. I'm in the same dilemma as most cowboys. I have about a # of Trail Boss left, and the shelves are empty. Although not a direct substitute for Trail Boss, Red Dot does possess a few of the same characteristics. It is a "fluffy" powder, about 65% denser than TB. It is a bit less fussy on the primer, but it does get erratic when loading density gets down there. IMHO loading density is one of the properties that I'll be focusing on, so, depending on it's density and reputation those will be the powders I'll gravitate to. That list is fairly long, there are a few powders in the higher nitroglycerine content and low density arena, The only issue with to high a nitroglycerine content is that the flame temperature tends to be a bit high. This can contribute to leading at lower velocities than a cooler burning powder, but this is not a significant factor until pressure and velocity are high(ish). I sorted the powders by VMD ( "The Volume Measured Density (VMD) of a powder is the volume in cc's (cubic centimeter) that one grain of powder occupies. This can be used to calculate the dipper, disk cavity or powder measure setting required to obtain a desired weight of powder." LEE Precision ) VMD/Powder Manufacturer .2172 IMR TRAIL BOSS Hodgdon .1489 ALNT E3 Alliant .1462 CLAYS Hodgdon .1446 IMR GREEN Hodgdon .1423 IMR RED Hodgdon .1413 RED DOT Alliant .1349 A NITRO100 Western .1343 IMR 700X Hodgdon .1341 AMER-SELECT Alliant .1331 SOLO 1000 Western .1300 TITEWAD Hodgdon .1296 WIN AA PLUS Hodgdon .1278 R COMPETITION Western .1266 WIN AA LITE Hodgdon .1266 INTERNATIONAL Hodgdon .1262 GREEN DOT Alliant .1205 wSUPER-TAR Hodgdon .1205 IMR PB Hodgdon .1196 IMR TARGET Hodgdon I'll be focusing on the top 10 of the list, and expand my search if those aren't suitable. I think that may be where the most success may lay. I'll use my Trail Boss for those applications where it works significantly better than other propellants. Trail Boss shines above the rest in the 44 Mag, 44-40 and 45 LC. In 38 Spl, the list of suitable powders is fairly large. I still have about 8 #s of AA452 left, it is right at home in the 38 Spl and Colt 45 Auto. I should burn it off before it gets too old anyways. VMD Sorted.xlsx 13.99 kB · 1 download BB Hey Big Boston what is your preferred load of 452AA in your 38’s? I’d also be interested to see your thoughts/results on the Alnt e3 for 38’s as well, when you have them. Thank You. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 As far as other powders go, Red Dot has long been my main shotgun powder for 12 gauge, and I have found it to be useful for various .44's and .45's used in CAS, including .45 ACP. My Dad had some loads for .38 Special with it, but I've never tried it as I don't use the caliber for Cowboy shooting. (About the only one I DON'T use, go fig...) I also have some W231 that I've used for .45 ACP/Colt and .38 S&W in the past. Other things on my bench that were obtained for specific things are some Blue Dot and HS-6. I also have 4066 and 4895. I figure between these things and my reloading manuals I'll find enough data to load up my cowboy cartridges. If and when I get to the point where I use up all of this, (or find that some of it does not have a Cowboy application) I'll just go to the local shops with my cowboy reloading manual in hand and see what is useful that they have in stock. One step, and one round, at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 BB, I have only used Trailboss for a few limited applications. Of all the powders on your list, Clays is the only one I have used. I have always been very happy with it at Hodgdon's minimum loading in 45 Colt and 44 Special. Ammo seems mild, consistent, and clean. But I haven't done much cold-weather shooting with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 10 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said: If they’re running 24/5 and not making powder then what are they making? Seems OZ has adopted the REACH program or something similar and now several lines of powders are non-compliant. So ADI is having to reformulate them. Takes some serious effort to develop powders from scratch with 1 hand tied behind your back. The only alternative is to license someone else's process which can be cost prohibitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said: Seems OZ has adopted the REACH program or something similar and now several lines of powders are non-compliant. So ADI is having to reformulate them. Takes some serious effort to develop powders from scratch with 1 hand tied behind your back. The only alternative is to license someone else's process which can be cost prohibitive. Hodgdon has the same problem when it comes to exporting powders to the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Nelson #11784 Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 17 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said: If they’re running 24/5 and not making powder then what are they making? They are still making their full range of RIFLE powders... the "AR" and "Bench Mark" series... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Big Boston" Posted December 21, 2021 Share Posted December 21, 2021 23 hours ago, Renegade Plowboy said: Hey Big Boston what is your preferred load of 452AA in your 38’s? I’d also be interested to see your thoughts/results on the Alnt e3 for 38’s as well, when you have them. Thank You. I use a 147 gr Hi-Tek coated bullet and adjust the OAL to 1.5". That sort of makes my load unique, probably not something you could duplicate. Calibre 38 S&W Special Date Loaded 2020-08-07 Powder 452AA (Ontario Keg) Weight in Grains 3.7 (Dillon) Bullet Xmetal Hi-Tek Weight in Grains 147 Primer WW SP Loaded OAL 1.5 Case FEDERAL 38 SPL + P (Nickel) Weight in Grains 64 Times Loaded Number loaded Rifle BH 200 Barrel clean/fouled Velocity Av 783.6/770.3 Es 20.8/11.45 Sd 8.06/5.00 Shots 5>/5< Comments Last test. Testing new batch of 452AA (Lot 4522301CC12B) Having issues with the first shot, powder forward. Increasing the powder slightly and changing to a WW SP primer seemed to be a better combo. I've also used 452 in the 357 and in 38 LC. I pretty much just adjust the powder for about the same velocity. 4.2 gr with 357 and the same bullet. Interestingly, I did end up changing primers for different lots of 452. I don't believe this a AA452 issue, I think that as powders age, the ignition properties may change slightly. I've used Trap 100, and several lots of AA452. find that it works decently for the lower, below 800 fps than some of the other powders. It is slightly position sensitive, and may exhibit a preference for some primers. I did run out, and then I bought another 8 # keg. I had worked up alternate loads with Trail Boss, but the load for the 147 gr bullet with AA452 was the real winner. Moot point as the 147 gr bullet is NLA. I haven't used AA452 in the Colt 45 Auto but that combo was popular back in the day. As far as Alliant e3, I may go to American Select instead, $45 instead of $60 is the biggest reason. However, Alliant e3 may be a decent powder for shotgun, low charges are still of a decent volume and the data does list loads at just over 1000 fps. AA452 had some low recoil application back in the day as well. One last note: I've found that a lot can be gained by reducing the volume of the powder chamber. To that end, for my revolvers 've gone to a wadcutter, a LEE 358-148-WC, and crimp it in the crimp groove. That leaves enough lead sticking outside of the case to be legal, and it shoots to the sights of most cowboy guns. 2.5 gr of TB works well in it. Calibre 38 S&W Special Date Loaded 2019-08-24 Powder Trail Boss Weight in Grains 2.5 (5S) Bullet 358-148-WC LEE Weight in Grains 149 > 150 Primer Fed 100 Loaded OAL 1.24 Case W-W 38 SPECIAL (Nickel) Weight in Grains Times Loaded Number loaded 10, 10, 50 Rifle NV 320 Barrel clean/fouled Velocity Av 638/638 Es 29.5/19.9 Sd 14.2/7.4 Shots 5>/5< BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.