Dixie Gun Works Rogers and Spencer 44 new to me - holster added

[Warden Callaway]

It's an addiction.  We go for a drive to watch for hawks and eagles and end up stopping in at our favorite toy stores.  I wasn't going to buy anything.  Just say hi and look around.  Lots of interesting stuff.   Then I saw a Dixie Gun Works Rogers and Spencer 44 in the display case.  Auh! Man!  I just watched a capandball and a Duelist1954 video on this gun.  

 

 

It doesn't look fired. No box or papers.  A few handling marks. I was weak and couldn't resist.

 

Anyone shoot these?  

 

 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Yes.

When I choose C&B guns, I had already had and have Colt 51 and Remington 58.

Neither one fit my hands and did not point well.

A good friend (Old Scout) brought to the range several C&B revolvers for me to handle.

Most of my life, I have wore glasses and I have 9 pair so I can use the pair for the distance I needed.

I am not able to focus in and out on distance.

 

Anyway.  With each revolver, I set it on a table in front of me one by one and looked at a target down range.

I would pick up the revolver and close my eyes and point at the target.

The Roger and Spence always came up on target for me.

 

The R&S has the most awkward grips ever to hold.

They are heavy guns.

But they were always on target without sighting.

I have a pair I shoot in competition. (past 25 plus years)

 

There is not a lot you can do for the heavy hammer spring.

You can file on it but if you go too far, replacements are very hard to find.

Learn to live with it.

 

I shoot 28 grains of FFg, Schuetzen or Goex with round Speers round ball.

 

Work well enough I finished 8th in Frontiersman 1998 EoT.

Yea, I am an old guy, now.

 

http://www.cliffhangershideout.com/gazette/2006/jul06.html

 

 

The chances are they were made by EURO Arms.

 

 

 

 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

Forgot to say, I like my Roger & Spencer revolvers. (3)

I don't have the Remington mostly because the trigger guard was too small for my fingers.

The Colt 51 is in the back of the safe somewhere.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Most of the originals are found in excellent plus condition with most of their original blue because the Civil War ended before the Rogers & Spenser could be issued.  Very odd grip and hammer angles.  Most people find them uncomfortable to shoot.  Made by Euroarms (Dixie), Pedersoli and Feinwerkbau.  The Feinwerbau models are made in Germany.  They are expensive but have an excellent reputation for accuracy in Europe where it is easier to own and shoot BP matches with cap and ball guns.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I like this guy from Italy.  He shoots lots of originals.

 

 

[Warden Callaway]

I've had some strange health issues that kept me awake at night (I don't sleep well anyway).  I recently watched the capandball video and this one by Mike Believau. 

 

 

 

This peeked my interest in this gun.  A quick search found none on the market.  Then I walked into the gunshop this morning and there was one! 

 

I've found it was made in 1984 and manufacturer marked DGG that should equate Armi San Paolo or Euroarms. 

[Diamond Curly SASS#57086]

I shoot this one but not as a duelist. My hands are not large enough to reach the hammer but I enjoy shooting them a few times a year. My family were from Utica NY where the originals were made so had to have a set. My other one is blued and I bought the conversion cylinders for each of them. You will enjoy them. DC

[Waxahachie Kid #17017 L]

I had one, liked it, but sold it this year, along with a Pietta Starr single action. 

Both revolvers had very unusual grip configurations, and I have small hands, so it was a chore to reach the hammers with my thumb. 

With the Rogers & Spencer, there is no safety notch to lower the hammer in, between the cones, so you probably need to leave one cylinder empty, if you intend to carry it...or where you are shooting has rules.  

I usually loaded up all six, since I was at the Cow Pasture to shoot, and not to gee-jaw, or roam around. 

Only about 300 or so Rogers & Spencer's made it out to the general public, or so I have read. The rest were put into storage, since they came out toward the end of the War Between the States. Bannerman sold quite a few, later on. Most were in really good shape, having been in storage. 

I liked the Rogers & Spencer, but I am too used to the Colt models, and the Remington models, and their grip frames. 

But...you done good in buying it...for right now, I do not believe they are being manufactured by any of the Italian firearms clone manufacturers. Mine was made by Euroarms, who is out of business.

 

My Two Bits.

W.K.  

 

 

[Warden Callaway]

Would you look at the thickness of that mainspring!   It wins the award for the heaviest hammer pull of any of my handguns.  Even two old first generation Colt were much lighter than this. 

 

 

The slots in some of the screws are very narrow.  My favorite screw bits for Colt are much too thick. Also, one screw slot is cut off center!  I've found and downloaded a parts diagram for what good it'll do me as I'm not hopeful I'll be able to find any.  (Dixie has a few but nothing you'd likely need). 

 

I won't try to reduce this spring.  I'll probably try to make one.  I have flat spring stock but not the experience at tempering them.

 

 

[Bailey Creek,5759]

I want one.

[Kid Rich]

1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

Would you look at the thickness of that mainspring!   It wins the award for the heaviest hammer pull of any of my handguns.  Even two old first generation Colt were much lighter than this. 

 

 

The slots in some of the screws are very narrow.  My favorite screw bits for Colt are much too thick. Also, one screw slot is cut off center!  I've found and downloaded a parts diagram for what good it'll do me as I'm not hopeful I'll be able to find any.  (Dixie has a few but nothing you'd likely need). 

 

I won't try to reduce this spring.  I'll probably try to make one.  I have flat spring stock but not the experience at tempering them.

 

 

I could mail you the instructions for spring making and tempering if you PM me your address.

kR

[Warden Callaway]

12 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

I could mail you the instructions for spring making and tempering if you PM me your address.

kR

 

Thanks but I have a lot of references and examples already.  I've tried a couple of times and failed.  I'll have to study up and try again.  

[Kid Rich]

I've used these instructions for spring shaping and making and never had one come out bad.

kR

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Kid Rich I tried to send you a message and it says you can't receive messages.

[DeaconKC]

@Cliff Hanger #3720LR next time you go to the eye Doc, ask about tri-focal lenses. I had them put on my current pair of glasses with the middle section set for about 36" and they work great for seeing sights on my cowboy guns.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Here's mine.   As you can see, it's been cartridge converted.

 

The bone grips aren't quite so white in reality.   This was advertised as a "movie prop for firing blanks."   When I got it, the timing was way off, the cylinder had a bit of a gap in it in that if you tilted the gun even slightly forward, it would slide forward just enough that the hammer would not always reach the primer.  I had the great Happy Trails give it a once over, he fixed the timing, and the gap, and said there was no reason why the gun could not fire live ammunition.  (.45 Colt)

I find it to be a very interesting gun, and enjoyable to shoot every once in a while.   As you can see, it's had it's barrel chopped and front sight replaced.   All in all, not bad for the 200 bucks I payed for it!

The hammer I think is very unusual.  To me, it feels as if you are just pulling it straight back instead of in a downward arc like other revolvers.   Attribute that to the shape of the hammer.   I can see how people with small hands might not like this gun, but I think it's great.   I'd seriously consider getting a second one someday if I stumbled across it.  

 

It's a Euroarms.

[Kid Rich]

1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Kid Rich I tried to send you a message and it says you can't receive messages.

I emptied the message box should be good to go now.

kR

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

2 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

@Cliff Hanger #3720LR next time you go to the eye Doc, ask about tri-focal lenses. I had them put on my current pair of glasses with the middle section set for about 36" and they work great for seeing sights on my cowboy guns.

--------------------------

I had bifocals made upside down.

The close lens (23") on top and the far lens (45') of the bottom.

In the last year I have had both eye lens replaced surgically.

I do not need glasses except for 24" and closer now.

 

I have not shot since the replacement but everything else is very clean now.

Actually I did have a varmint problem one afternoon and I had no problems with shooting my shotgun.

 

[Warden Callaway]

Larry Porterfield makes it look easy. 

 

 

 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

I love the Midway videos but have you even noticed no matter how dirty or difficult the job Larry is never dirty?

[Warden Callaway]

38 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

I love the Midway videos but have you even noticed no matter how dirty or difficult the job Larry is never dirty?

 

And look at that shop. You could eat off the floor.

 

Probably not the case with Mark Novak's shop floor.

 

 

 

[Rancho Roy]

KID RICH, I sent you a private message....

[Warden Callaway]

I got out and shot it 18 shots this afternoon.  All good so far.  RWS 1075 plus caps, Grafs FFFg and fiber wad. I set a 454 round ball on top of the wad and it pretty much fell into the chamber.  I easily lifted it out with needle nose pliers.  I switched to 457 balls and they fit friction tight but didn't shave lead. 

 

The feel of the gun in general is much different than any of my Colt SA type guns.  It's a LONG reach to the hammer shooting duelist.  

[Warden Callaway]

It's been nearly 50 years since I've made a holster.  I made several back then but bought leather after that.  I decided to make some holsters as winter projects having several handguns in need. 

 

When I brought the Rogers and Spencer home, I had nothing that could be used.  So I decided it would be a good first project.

 

 

It's a simple Slim Jim holster.  The leaf carving is a facsimile of the Jesse James holster.  A little crude and rustic but given my tools and talent,  it looks at least serviceable. 

 

My next project is to make some non-cowboy chest holsters for myself and son.  He's an avid hunter,  sometimes in bear country and carries a heavy handgun.  I'd use mine out on the farm being handy when driving the Mule or hiking up and down the hills.  No grizzly,  but black bear, mountain lions are around.  But the more likely danger is large dogs - domestic and farrell - that rome the countryside.

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

As for the long reach to the hammer.

You will learn to let the gun roll in your hand during recoil.

This brings the hammer up and back to your waiting thumb.

As the gun returns to level, your thumb will cock the hammer and you grip the gun ready for the next shoot.

with a little practice, the gun will come back to sights on target requiring you not to hunt for the sights.

[Warden Callaway]

5 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

As for the long reach to the hammer.

You will learn to let the gun roll in your hand during recoil.

This brings the hammer up and back to your waiting thumb.

As the gun returns to level, your thumb will cock the hammer and you grip the gun ready for the next shoot.

with a little practice, the gun will come back to sights on target requiring you not to hunt for the sights.

 

If I don't hold it with pinky under butt, it beats the snot out of my index finger. 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

If you hold the grip with your little finger under the butt, the gun will not point naturally.

If you cram your fingers against the trigger guard, the recoil will not beat your fingers up

AND the gun will point naturally.