Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 A lady I know in another town has a 2011 [corrected] Chevy Impala. Ran fine, then a couple mornings ago would not start. Everything electrical works but the starter. A neighbor of hers offered to help - pulled the starter, bought and installed a new one. Did NOT test the starter first; no change. So I happened along this afternoon and listened to her tale of woe. I had only a short time, so I a) checked the battery - fully charged. b) had her try a "neutral start" (with some vehicles, you can turn the ignition to 'on,' shift from Park to Neutral, and start, bypassing the neutral safety switch. No joy. c) I checked the 40 amp starter fuse - good. d) swapped the starter relay with another relay from a separate circuit (five of these things are identical!) - again, no joy. Oh... and she lost the original keys a few years ago - had one made and coded by a locksmith. Wondering if it's possible the chip failed? Suggestions on what to try next? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D. Daily Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Crawl under the car to access the starter with a 14ga or 12ga muti-strand wire w/approx. 1/8-1/4" of insulation stripped of each end. Locate the large stud on the starter solenoid that runs to the battery positive terminal. Locate the small starter solenoid terminal that has a wire on it. Jump this terminal to the battery positive terminal on the solenoid. This bypasses all the starter control circuit. Since the starter has been replaced I expect the starter to engage and crank the engine. Without a wiring diagram it is a job for an auto repair shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 It could be many things. Brake pedal switch - Chevy’s have a switch on the brake pedal. If pedal not pressed starter will not actuate and it gives no indication why. Like @J.D. Dailysaid, without a schematic perhaps a shop should be looking at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Joker Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Ignition switch, neutral switch, brake switch, rfid chip, broken wire loom, burnt positive fusible link, bad solenoid lots of reasons a starter craps. You tube has a lot of starter trouble shooting videos. I understand that it wan't done but I always have auto store starter and alternator parts bench tested before I leave. Last time I bought an alternator it was obviously a core that was reshelved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Do these 'keys' use a battery? Have the keys ck'd at a dealership. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 That vehicle has an OBD2 test port. You can use a scanner to help diagnose the problem. I’m not aware of a brake switch that will keep the starter from activating. It WILL prevent you from getting the car out of park, but those cars will start with both the driver’s feet flat on the floor. A bad park/neutral switch could be the culprit. A bad ignition switch could also prevent the starter from engaging. A bad security circuit/chip would prevent the car from running, but in most cases will not keep the starter from spinning the engine. Get under the car with a test light and ascertain whether there is power to the starter solenoid from the battery. Then have someone operate the key and see if there is power to the engage post on the solenoid with the key in the start position. If you find that there is battery power to the solenoid and that current is supplied to the engage post at the appropriate times, you have a bad starter or solenoid. Test and repair or replace the starter as necessary. The test that J. D. Daily suggested is appropriate here too. After these tests are performed, if either circuit in not functioning properly, check the appropriate connections and repair if needed. If the connections are good, then test the neutral safety switch and the ignition switch. If those are in working order, you will probably need to borrow a scanner or turn it over to a professional technician. If you ARE a professional technician you probably don’t need any of this advice. You will have performed these tests and will refer to the appropriate trouble shooting guide or gone to the information found on YouTube. I’ve been asked a thousand times to diagnose automotive problems when I wasn’t anywhere near the vehicle. My standard reply, after swapping information has been, “I don’t know! Lay the phone down, over close to it, and let me take a look!!” I wish I could help more… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP McLintock Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Lots of things could do that, if its a 2001, my bet would be corroded battery terminals, bad battery cable, or a rodent ate the wiring to the pcm for the starter enable circuits. If its a 2011 it could be many different things, probably will have to go to someone knowledgeable in such things., the days of over the phone diagnosis are done, on newer cars there are many different modules that need to talk to each other to do something as simple as crank the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted December 7, 2021 Author Share Posted December 7, 2021 Crap. Fumblefingers. It's a 2011... Battery is good; it's a few months old. I did scan it ~ the only stored code was a "P" whatever that indicated it'd had a loose gas cap at some point. I felt bad not being able to do more, but I had limited time and the beast was parked at the curb on a really busy, fast street. I said I'll come back if she can get some folks to push it into the driveway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Had a problem like that a couple of times. The wire going to the Started was coroded. Couldn't tell untill i cut some of the insulation away fron the wire. Copper Green. Different car some teeth on the flywheel were missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 My daughter had a similar problem one time, turned out she spilled some coke into the shifter and got something gummed up, car didn't know it was in park, OK to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 I am not familiar with that model year Chevy. Is the switch on the steering column? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JP McLintock Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Here is a diagram of the starting system, there is also a transponder in the key for the immobilizer, but on a gm if that were the issue it would start and stall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El CupAJoe Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 On 12/7/2021 at 1:34 AM, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said: b) had her try a "neutral start" (with some vehicles, you can turn the ignition to 'on,' shift from Park to Neutral, and start, bypassing the neutral safety switch. No joy. On 12/7/2021 at 2:20 AM, J.D. Daily said: Crawl under the car to access the starter with a 14ga or 12ga muti-strand wire w/approx. 1/8-1/4" of insulation stripped of each end. Locate the large stud on the starter solenoid that runs to the battery positive terminal. Locate the small starter solenoid terminal that has a wire on it. Jump this terminal to the battery positive terminal on the solenoid. This bypasses all the starter control circuit. Since the starter has been replaced I expect the starter to engage and crank the engine. Without a wiring diagram it is a job for an auto repair shop. Be wary of this, my Dodge Dakota had a broken shifter cable bracket, even though the shifter said it was in park it was in drive and when we hot wired it, thing started to move. I wouldn't want to be underneath in that situation and you probably want someone sitting next to the brake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 The reason I asked the above question: GM cars that have the key on the steering column to lock the steering use a rod to connect the tumbler to a switch that is mounted low on the steering column. When this is worn, turning the key does not move the switch far enough to make contact and the starter never gets any electricity. If this car has a locking steering wheel, find the lower switch and manually activate it to see if this will start the engine. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said: The reason I asked the above question: GM cars that have the key on the steering column to lock the steering use a rod to connect the tumbler to a switch that is mounted low on the steering column. When this is worn, turning the key does not move the switch far enough to make contact and the starter never gets any electricity. If this car has a locking steering wheel, find the lower switch and manually activate it to see if this will start the engine. Duffield You are correct, sir!! If the linkage is worn or the actual switch is loose, the switch won't complete the circuit. Not sure if these later model vehicles use that old Saginaw steering column. I KNOW my 2012 Buick does NOT! It DOES, however. have the key and tumbler assembly on the column. For that matter, my 1997 Chevrolet pickup also has the key on the column, but the switch in built into a pod with the turn signal and emergency flasher switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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