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Alec never pulled the trigger


Utah Bob #35998
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He said he would Never point a gun at someone and pull the trigger. 
It just went off.

Darned Guns!! 
:rolleyes:

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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None of the news media discuss how the firearm works.

 

There are innumerable cases of people unintentionally killing another with a firearm, and saying 'the gun just went off'; in their deep dismay they may even believe it. But, of course, they don't 'just go off'.

 

Leaving aside animus against Baldwin personally, what are the scenarios? One, the most likely, he cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger. Another is that he cocked the hammer with his finger inside the guard, and slight pressure fired the gun. Many SAAs have a light trigger pull; I bought one that did and I put it aside until fixed-- very light. But then, he still would have had to cock the gun. Or it was handed to him cocked-- an ominous speculation.

 

A person who knows little or nothing about these revolvers might well be ignorant of how light the trigger pull can be-- but the gun still has to be cocked.

 

Here's a question for someone who knows more than me: are there scenarios where the gun can be fired on half-cock; i.e. someone puts it on half to load, then hands it off in that state?

 

I'm assuming Baldwin didn't deliberately shoot the victim, whatever one may think of him otherwise.

Edited by Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619
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11 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

None of the news media discuss how the firearm works.

 

There are innumerable cases of people unintentionally killing another with a firearm, and saying 'the gun just went off'; in their deep dismay they may even believe it. But, of course, they don't 'just go off'.

 

Leaving aside animus against Baldwin personally, what are the scenarios? One, the most likely, he cocked the hammer and pulled the trigger. Another is that he cocked the hammer with his finger inside the guard, and slight pressure fired the gun. Many SAAs have a light trigger pull; I bought one that did and I put it aside until fixed-- very light. But then, he still would have had to cock the gun. Or it was handed to him cocked-- an ominous speculation.

 

A person who knows little or nothing about these revolvers might well be ignorant of how light the trigger pull can be-- but the gun still has to be cocked.

 

Here's a question for someone who knows more than me: are there scenarios where the gun can be fired on half-cock; i.e. someone puts it on half to load, then hands it off in that state?

 

I'm assuming Baldwin didn't deliberately shoot the victim, whatever one may think of him otherwise.

If the sear is broken or the half cock notch is worn, yeah it can go off easily.

 

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Baldwin didn’t pull the trigger and my @$$ is a Chinese typewriter!!

 

My dad would have said, “In a pig’s @ss and that’s pork!!”

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Typical leftist/liberal/marxist/anti2nd thinking, if, indeed, he is capable of thnking.

 

Blame anything, or anyone else, for your actions. It was probably his parent's fault, or the firearm's fault, or the man-in-the-moon's fault, or...like as not, because he had a privileged "white" upbringing.

 

He could also blame Kyle Rittenhouse, and the innocent verdict....oh wait....he had already shot them, before the verdict came in. Well, no matter...let's not get any facts in the way of his b.s. story. 

 

He is only fooling himself, or the equally stupid. 

 

Next thing he will likely say is, that he wasn't even there...or perhaps, he was not even born, when this shooting occurred. 

 

He is so pathetic. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Well, it IS possible that he don't know what part is the trigger.

 

PLUS, in reality, triggers are not 'pulled',  triggers are 'pressed'.

 

..........Widder

 

I think as many movies as he’s done over the years he knows exactly.

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6E2247D2-F8FA-486F-B5CF-4EB86A14033B.jpeg

EE573DBE-F7EB-45B6-8A17-2ED26B339877.jpeg

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Just finished watching the interview. Personally, I'm not really interested in issues of Baldwin personally. Plenty here hate him; I don't like him, but I want to know what happened, not what I think.

 

He said he pulled the hammer back, short of full cock, and released it, and then it discharged. He says he didn't pull the trigger.

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A suggestion. No real guns on any movie set.

Plastic green guns so CGI can fill them in in post production as they do the gun fire.

Actors want to play make believe, use make believe guns and knives, and swords and etc.

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IMHO that whole interview was very telling of the man himself, he’s an actor and he was doing just that in the interview, acting.  He is trying to plead his in the court of public opinion.  He cried, he said he felt bad, but it wasn’t his fault, someone handed him the gun, someone told him it was cold, someone brought live “bullets” onto the set.  Again he was pleading his case, from one left winger to the others.   Ultimately he’s responsible no matter what “someone” said. 

 

I hoped he’s saved his money, because I don’t think he’s going to be offered many acting parts in the future. 

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I too was a bit taken aback by his statement that he did not pull the trigger!  However, it is possible to drop the hammer and fire a SSA revolver without separately pulling the trigger (slip hammering it comes to mind here), but generally speaking it takes both cocking and firing unless the mechanism is damaged in some way and accidentally completing both actions is a bit of a stretch to say the least.  In any case, he did at least attempt to cock the revolver, which in turn shows intent to fire it!  Anyway, they have the revolver, so it's proper function should be easy to prove one way or the other.  In any case, he did fire the weapon and it was pointed at the victim at the time, there's simply no way around that obvious reality!  Frankly, I'd bet that his lawyers coached him on what to say and the entire interview was an effort to cast blame elsewhere if at all possible.  A feeble and foolish attempt in my eyes! 

 

Personally, I don't believe that he intended to shoot anyone, but his personal negligence ended up in someone losing their life and he needs to be held accountable.  Just being stupid is not a valid excuse!  Just because he is rich and famous should not keep him from being criminally charged for this wrongful death like any of us would be in a similar situation.  While I'm sure he will pay dearly in dollars from the suits in civil court, I think the criminal charges are even more important here, especially if we want real changes in this industry when using firearms.  Not only did he fire the fatal shot, but he was in charge of the entire movie which also makes him negligent for not hiring capable people to manage the safe and proper use of the firearms.  Instead, I believe he was playing with the gun, as it appears that they were not shooting film at that time.  While it is indeed important to find out how and why a live round was loaded in the gun, he still fired the fatal shot and accidental or involuntary manslaughter charges would be appropriate in my eyes.  Frankly, he should serve real time in jail for being so reckless and irresponsible as well as get his pants sued off in civil court and being a movie star should have no bearing on the outcome whatsoever!    

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2 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

image.jpeg.9862302ef40e72c872289ad27a3df5e9.jpeg

 

Here's the "Rust" armorer.  Looks pretty professional to me.

 

 Her father is Thell Reed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thell_Reed  so while it may have only been the second time she was lead/head armorer for a movie, she probably has a great deal of experience with firearms.   

 

Without more information, I'm not willing to blame her, especially with everyone lawyering up and everyone blaming someone else

 

 

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I didn't watch the "interview", I did listen to it from another room. Listening to people being interviewed or talking without seeing them gives a whole other perspective it seems like. At least it does for me.

 

First off, his complete lack of acknowledgement of responsibility, although not unexpected, is disgusting to say the least. He never once took responsibility for his actions. Everything was someone else's fault by his account.

 

He seemed more worried about who sued first. Who cares, I hope everyone involved sues him.

 

His explanation of pulling the hammer back on the gun, releasing it and the gun goes off is somewhat plausible under the right circumstances. If he didn't go to full cock, it's possible. There would be evidence of this as the cylinder probably did not rotate for proper alignment with the barrel. The primer would have an off center hit and the bullet would have "shaved" off a discernable amount of lead. I would think that law enforcement would discover this fairly easily.

 

While trying to absolve himself of blame, he also made statements on video that he will now have to stick with. This video is now evidence. When his lies doesn't  match the evidence, he will have sunk his own ship.

 

While I would love to see him serve jail time, I doubt he will. Money talks every time and will again in this event. Might cost him some money but he'll walk.

 

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It does not matter who the Armorer or Assistant was, when you pick up a gun, it is now YOUR responsibility.

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5 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

image.jpeg.9862302ef40e72c872289ad27a3df5e9.jpeg

 

Here's the "Rust" armorer.  Looks pretty professional to me.

From what I’ve read, I would characterize her as inexperienced.

 

 

 

Never judge a book by it’s cover.
I was a professional when this pic was taken. ;)
967CC2AB-6649-4024-9F94-82AB05A578AD.thumb.jpeg.562856b9d5511d20f3bca70b5b7b4e39.jpeg.

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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4 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

I strongly doubt that any experienced attorney would have let Baldwin do that interview unless there were "assurances" from the authorities investigating the shooting that he was in the clear. 

The authorities would Never do that. You do not release the results of a criminal investigation before it’s conclusion. Now unofficially some insider might have spoken out of school. If so, he would be in deep poo if found out.

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"His explanation of pulling the hammer back on the gun, releasing it and the gun goes off is somewhat plausible under the right circumstances. If he didn't go to full cock, it's possible. There would be evidence of this as the cylinder probably did not rotate for proper alignment with the barrel. The primer would have an off center hit and the bullet would have "shaved" off a discernable amount of lead. I would think that law enforcement would discover this fairly easily."  - Cypress Sun

 

While he stated he "didn't pull the trigger", there is the possibility that the pad on his trigger finger could have contacted the trigger sufficiently to have released contact with the sear on the hammer.  If he then released his hold on the hammer spur, the gun would have fired with the cylinder rotated into battery.  If that were the case, even if he was pointing the gun to the right (from his viewpoint) of the victims, side pressure on the trigger could have pushed the muzzle so that the gun covered the victims.  Mind you, I am NOT saying this is what happened, or that there was ANY excuse for live ammo on the set, just saying the possible explanation for his statement.

 

Another possibility (easily checked by the police) would have been if the "dog's" on the full-cock, half-cock and "safety" notches or the trigger were damaged or possibly sabotaged!  

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Three possibilities: Either the gun in question has a mechanical issue which a competent gunsmith can

determine after examination, or He pulled the trigger in some manner after cocking the pistol, or there

needs to be an exorcist on the set from now on.

 

As to who is responsible for ammo on the set, it sounds like Thell Reed had brought it there for some

other film shooting, and the producer/director of that retained the ammo after, telling Reed to write it

off.  From there it somehow migrated into the firearm in question, and was never discovered before

ending up in use during rehearsal.  Long chain of failures here . . . . .

 

His denial about pulling the trigger is easily understood as denial of the event itself, which is understandable

but probably not going to hold up. 

 

I'm sure there is more to come . . .

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1 hour ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

I strongly doubt that any experienced attorney would have let Baldwin do that interview unless there were "assurances" from the authorities investigating the shooting that he was in the clear. 

It may be that they are worried about the "court of public opinion"

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on the topic at hand, I feel bad for the grieving families that have to deal with all this Alec drama while dealing with the loss of their wife/mom.  

 

on a completely unrelated note, I once bought a used .22 SNS for about $80 at a big box store.  It was having issues feeding from the magazine, so to load it up, I dropped one in the chamber and dropped the slide.  Finger off the trigger, the extractor hit the rim and fired the shot, put a hole in my table.  I confirmed this at the range, where I repeated the procedure scientifically with my finger off the trigger.  I also found that dropping the slide or firing the gun with a full magazine would result in the gun continually firing until either it jammed or the magazine emptied.  I took it back to the store and got 80% of my money back per there policy after explaining to them that under no circumstances should this gun ever leave their store in a customer's hands ever again.  who knows if they took my advice.

Edited by El CupAJoe
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Folks, it's all DOUBLE TALK and SMOKE & MIRRORS to confuse those who don't have any common sense and who refuse to think for themselves.

Happy trails

QDG/Mike

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Ok, I do not like the dude.  But, if you are pulling back the hammer of a stock SAA repro, with a round under the hammer, and your thumb slips off the hammer before the gun goes into half-cock, it can light off the round without pulling the trigger.   This whole thing was a failure of redundant safety precautions right down the line.   The part of the interview where he said "I would never point a real gun at a person", is of course, horse pucky.   That's obviously exactly what happened.  I'm sure nobody wanted this really unfortunate incident to happen, but what a mess!   

 

By the way, the armourer's father may have been Thell Reed, and trained by him, but others in the industry don't seem to be enamored of him either. 

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2 hours ago, Joe LaFives #5481 said:

It may be that they are worried about the "court of public opinion"

Absolutely. Damage control and trying to influence any potential jurors.

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8 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

on the topic at hand, I feel bad for the grieving families that have to deal with all this Alec drama while dealing with the loss of their wife/mom.  

 

on a completely unrelated note, I once bought a used .22 SNS for about $80 at a big box store.  It was having issues feeding from the magazine, so to load it up, I dropped one in the chamber and dropped the slide.  Finger off the trigger, the extractor hit the rim and fired the shot, put a hole in my table.  I confirmed this at the range, where I repeated the procedure scientifically with my finger off the trigger.  I also found that dropping the slide or firing the gun with a full magazine would result in the gun continually firing until either it jammed or the magazine emptied.  I took it back to the store and got 80% of my money back per there policy after explaining to them that under no circumstances should this gun ever leave their store in a customer's hands ever again.  who knows if they took my advice.

A semi automatic rimfire is a bit different situation than a SAA style single action in a lot of respects.

Just saying

Regards

:FlagAm:  :FlagAm:  :FlagAm:

Gateway Kid

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