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US police officer dismissed after shooting alleged shoplifter in wheelchair nine times, killing him


Buckshot Bear
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US police officer dismissed after shooting alleged shoplifter in wheelchair nine times, killing him

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-02/us-police-officer-shoots-dead-tucson-man-in-wheelchair/100668278

 

Anyone see any justification in that video for 9 shots?

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'There is no official national record of fatal shootings by US police officers, and reporting of incidents by police departments is voluntary.

A tally by the Washington Post published this week shows more than 900 people have been shot and killed by police in the last year'.

 

To an Aussie, the above figure sounds an incredibly high number......does that ring as true?

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As a 35 year veteran of Law Enforcement, I learned a long time ago not to come to a conclusion until I have all the facts.  However, it's going to be really hard to justify this one.   I don't think the officer can articulate why a misdemeanor shoplifter in a wheelchair needs killing.  Just chain his chair to a handicap sign and wait for help.

 

I think 900 criminals killed by police nationwide per year is probably a low figure.  The vast majority needed killing, however, every one of them needs to be soberly reviewed.

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10 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

Anyone see any justification in that video for 9 shots?

I am not going to speak towards this particular incident.

 

1 - video.  Unless you have access to an entire video I caution against making assumptions.  Just look at the way mainstream media (propaganda) edits videos to make their points, make some people look good or make others look bad.  Perception.

 

2 - armchair quarterbacks. If you've never been in the position of a first responder or military member, you don't have the ability to pontificate on how you would react, or how someone else "should" react, to a specific situation.  Then, every situation is different and requires a slightly different reaction.

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Having been on shooting review boards during my career I find this disturbing. Of course we are not privy to all

of the information so all I can say is my gut tells me it’s a very bad shoot.

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9 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Maybe he thought he was going to be run over by the wheelchair. Some of those can spin on a dime, after all.

That is a powerchair so it is a motorized vehicle.  If it was heading into the store where innocent shoppers are...

 

Agree with @Badlands Bob #61228, 900 seems low.  The drug and gang violence alone could add to that in a nation of 332 million people. Recently there was a felon who appeared to attempt to run over a police officer.  Was he playing chicken or had murderous intent?  The felon's family didn't blame the officer. 

 

The way the prosecution system is run encourages offenders to repeat and escalate.  Then the officer has to make a split second decision.

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Well .. from the video I saw (which means nothing). The guy had already pulled out a knife on a store clerk and the police officer when asked for a receipt in the  parking lot ... In fact he said something to the effect "here is your receipt" as he revealed the knife.

 

I am only assuming .. if he responded to that part of the encounter then he "could" actually hear the officer etc ... 

Anyhow ... the video shows him returning to the store (as the officer is asking for backup) ... and is rolling into the store again w/ the officer shouting something like "no .. stop ... do not enter the store!!) ... (knife was still very visible).

 

AND .. I assume the officer decided he could not let the guy get close to additional customers inside the store w/ the knife in hand. 

I think he shot him 9 or 10 times (possibly he ran out of bullets) .... 

 

I don't know ... looked like he was rolling w/ the knife ... had plenty of battery power left and was clearly not stopping for the cop or anyone else. 

Perhaps ... some of the store employees should have run ahead of him and made sure that other customers didn't get in his way until they got a net or the batteries ran out ... 

 

Don't know ... it sounds bad (that's the way the media works) ... but it was his decision and the guy was armed ... ignoring instructions and on the move back into the store .. Seems a tazer would have been a better solution ... but I missed if that was mentioned in the article anywhere. 

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14 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

US police officer dismissed after shooting alleged shoplifter in wheelchair nine times, killing him

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-02/us-police-officer-shoots-dead-tucson-man-in-wheelchair/100668278

 

Anyone see any justification in that video for 9 shots?

 

No, usually motorized vehicles take more shots than that.

 

Suicide by cops. Sad but it happens.

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Yeah .. I just watched the video Buckshot Bear posted and is has been edited ... it doesn't show the guy falling out of the chair w/ the knife in his hand (only shows the front after he is on the ground).

One of those objects laying in front of the chair was the knife .. and that was clearly shown in the video I watched yesterday.

Your video is the one I watched but with a lot more edits (like the verbal exchange w/ the receipt etc ... the front view from the store cam w/ the knife plainly in view etc).

Since he already showed the cop he had a knife ... and was brandishing it ... I am positive the cop was absoutely sure he didn't have any other weapons ... I guess ...

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What it all boils down to is not what the officer thought. The question is were his actions reasonable and in compliance with his training, department policies, and state laws. That’s what the shooting review board determines. The States Attorney will have a separate investigation, usually conducted by the Sheriff, State Police, or FBI depending on the case.

The fact that the department terminated his employment so quickly is evidence that they determined he violated policies at the least.

 

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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4 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

What it all boils down to is not what the officer thought. The question is were his actions reasonable and in compliance with his training, department policies, and state laws. That’s what the shooting review board determines. The States Attorney will have a separate investigation, usually conducted by the Sheriff, State Police, or FBI depending on the case.

The fact that the department terminated his employment so quickly is evidence that they determined he violated policies at the least.

 

Any way you look at it, he still shot a guy in a wheel chair in the back 9 times over a shoplifted toolbox.   That has got to violate some kind of policy. 

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Maybe we ought to wait for all of the facts to come out.

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1 hour ago, Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 said:

Well .... from the article link I posted ...

>>

Editor's Note: The story has been updated to reflect that Officer Remington has not actually been fired yet. According to his attorney, the department provided a notice of termination, which could take up to a week to go through. Remington's attorney said he plans to appeal the termination.

<<

 

Oh .. was that "his" cart?? Looks like a mobility cart that they park in Lowes, Supermarkets .. Walmart etc ...

Was he just using it to ride around?? (great way to conceal) ... Who said the guy regulary used a wheel chair??

 

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37 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Well .... from the article link I posted ...

>>

Editor's Note: The story has been updated to reflect that Officer Remington has not actually been fired yet. According to his attorney, the department provided a notice of termination, which could take up to a week to go through. Remington's attorney said he plans to appeal the termination.

<<

 

Oh .. was that "his" cart?? Looks like a mobility cart that they park in Lowes, Supermarkets .. Walmart etc ...

Was he just using it to ride around?? (great way to conceal) ... Who said the guy regulary used a wheel chair??

 

I would think if he wasn’t wheelchair bound he would have got up and run.

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The more I watch the video, the confuseder I get.

 

We got the off-duty cop who is working as a rentacop at the mall. He's running around with police radio and a taser, and a body cam, and his uniform with his bat belt? Off duty moonlighting? Is that something normal?

 

Then the video shows a uniformed cop driving up in a cop car, getting out, and it appears that he is the one that does the shooting.

 

Then there's three cops around the body on the ground.

 

So who shot him? Was the off-duty cop moonlighting in full cop gear driving a cop car?

 

Confuserer and confuseder.

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The type of Taser cops carry are the dart type which are not ideal for disabling someone in a wheel chair from behind, very small target.   And darts in the head, neck and shoulder can cause death.  Mace & pepper spray from behind might not incapacitate.  The officer would have to run to get far enough in front of motorize chair to have safe distance from the knife to prevent being stabbed.  Also, if chair doesn't stop the officer would have to step backward into the garden dept. safely.  Dangerous move unless you have rear view mirror, backup cam or someone watching your back giving directions.

P.S. Knife wounds are often more deadly than bullet wounds.

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39 minutes ago, Alpo said:

The more I watch the video, the confuseder I get.

 

We got the off-duty cop who is working as a rentacop at the mall. He's running around with police radio and a taser, and a body cam, and his uniform with his bat belt? Off duty moonlighting? Is that something normal?

 

Then the video shows a uniformed cop driving up in a cop car, getting out, and it appears that he is the one that does the shooting.

 

Then there's three cops around the body on the ground.

 

So who shot him? Was the off-duty cop moonlighting in full cop gear driving a cop car?

 

Confuserer and confuseder.

Yes it is normal. You are still acting as a certified officer but off duty and being paid by the business. You are also still compelled to abide by department procedures and policies. Your hours will be monitored and limited by the department. Many officers in low paying departments work off duty jobs tor extra income. Especially around the holidays. 
Some departments allow the use of a police vehicle, some do not.


And we don’t “run around” and are not at all happy about being called rent a cops. :rolleyes:

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On 12/2/2021 at 8:23 AM, sassnetguy50 said:

Then the officer has to make a split second decision.

9 rounds in the back, for a handicapped guy in a slow moving scooter.  Seems legitimate.

I hope the DA does right by this and charges the guy with murder. He's been fired and the department already said he was wrong.  

Lawyers are lining up.

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
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