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Founders Ranch closed.


Singin' Sue 71615
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I post this only as information.

Many folks are passing through NM to AZ and may be planning on visiting FR.

At this time it seems unlikey.

 

Any speculation, negative remarks or snarky comments are not necessary.;)

 

From Kurt Bowker:

To all,
It is with great regrets that we post the following information. As everyone knows it was a great weekend with the gun swap and the ranch was full steam ahead with many plans for the future. 

As of November 30, 2021 contract negotiations to purchase the ranch were stopped from the previous owners Founders Ranch, LLC to Founders Ranch II, Inc. We are all very saddened by this very unfortunate and untimely decision. 

As we had honored their previous obligations with membership, purchased clays and events we hope that they will in turn allow those who have purchased clays and membership to come and use them along with those who had began to plan events at the ranch next year.  

At this time all scheduled events and lane reservations have been put on hold till further notice.  This includes the shotgun shoot scheduled for 12/4/21

At this time we do not have any contact information to pass along for Founders Ranch, LLC as the previous Ranch number had not been transferred to us and we had to obtain a new number. 

For those who have consigned guns please contact Double C Arsenal.   They can be picked up or left on consignment. There are guns that are still available for purchase. Double C Arsenal is still available for all of your gun purchasing needs. For those who were ordering guns from the gun swap those can still be completed through Double C Arsenal.  They can be contacted directly at 505-363-0450. 

We have many items such as targets, pellet guns, bows/arrows that we need to liquidate.  We will post these items shortly for sale and will meet up with you for delivery.  

We are truly grateful for all of the support from the community and for you believing in our new vision of the ranch.  We are very saddened by the sudden change as you are well aware of the many plans that we had for next year already in-progress as well as the many new ranges that were in process to be completed. 

May you all be safe in your expression of your 2nd amendment freedoms. 

Edited by Singin' Sue 71615
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So, what does this mean?  Who is Founders Ranch LLC and Founders Ranch II Inc.?  I assume this is only affecting the local shooters since SASS has vacated the property.  Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up.

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12 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

So, what does this mean?  Who is Founders Ranch LLC and Founders Ranch II Inc.?  I assume this is only affecting the local shooters since SASS has vacated the property.  Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up.

It affects those who wanted to utillize FR in any shooting venue...

IE: long range, cowboy, pcc, clays...

FR was open to public as well as SASS members...many came and experienced FR on their travels.

It is a shame.

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As a couple of the Founders Ranch Platinum Members  (Copper Queen and I) the agreement was lifetime as long as FR LLC owned and SASS operated the ranch. Since SASS no longer operates the ranch the moneys spent are just considered a donation to help the ranch get up and going so all SASS members could enjoy it. Several of us put in many thousands of $$ to help out. Sadly the financial viability of the entire operation just didn't work out. We just consider it water under the bridge. :(

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34 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

And what about the lifetime memberships that were sold under SASS's name? :o

Sure sounds like a bunch of lawsuits might be filed.

OLG 

I doubt that will happen. Founders Members did what they did.

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5 minutes ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

As a couple of the Founders Ranch Platinum Members  (Copper Queen and I) the agreement was lifetime as long as FR LLC owned and SASS operated the ranch. Since SASS no longer operates the ranch the moneys spent are just considered a donation to help the ranch get up and going so all SASS members could enjoy it. Several of us put in many thousands of $$ to help out. Sadly the financial viability of the entire operation just didn't work out. We just consider it water under the bridge. :(

Thank you Happy Jack.

 

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1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

So, what does this mean?  Who is Founders Ranch LLC and Founders Ranch II Inc.?  I assume this is only affecting the local shooters since SASS has vacated the property.  Sorry, I haven't really been keeping up.

FR LLC were the original owners of the property built up as FR.

It was 'sold' to owners FR II Inc in April...and was operating.

Edited by Singin' Sue 71615
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It is always nice to know the "why" of things. 

We only think the worst, when the "why" is not communicated.

I have fall back on the old adage:..."follow the money", until shown otherwise.

Like as not, things happen for a reason, or an excuse, and not for no reason, or excuse.

Someone, some entity, stands to gain, in some fashion, by this happening. Sounds like some people have, and will, lose some money on this deal.

If everything is on the up, and up, an explanation should be forthcoming. If this isn't on the up, and up, an explanation won't be forthcoming. 

The passing of time will reveal which of the two this falls under. 

 

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40 minutes ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

f everything is on the up, and up, an explanation should be forthcoming. If this isn't on the up, and up, an explanation won't be forthcoming. 

No business owes its customers an explanation when it fails. If they don’t want to make things public, and I don’t blame them, it means nothing about the character of those involved. 

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If I have money invested in a company, or endeavor, that fails, I will want to know why, and they owe me at least that, or else I will visit them, in person, in the middle of the night, and find out. 

In this case, I had no money invested, but some did. 

 

Let's see....money.

I spend the precious, limited, finite moments of my earthly life, working...spending time away from hearth, and home, and family, in exchange for compensation, or legal tender, or money. 

Money represents the limited moments of my life.

If it is stolen, or misused, or misappropriated, or lost, through poor management, or incompetence, or greed, or theft, or bad luck, or happenstance, or through ignorance, or a legitimate reason, or a stupid reason...I will want to know why and what happened, or else.

 

It doesn't matter if they think they owe me an explanation or not. They may not want to make anything public, but they will tell me.

It may, or it may not, reflect on the character of those involved. There is no set rule that says it means nothing about the character of those involved. 

It may mean nothing, it may mean something. It is judged on a case by case basis. 

Bottom line, one has to take responsibility for actions, and results...and...some may have to answer for it...either in court, or a friendly meeting, over a glass of iced tea, at the local watering hole....or.....out behind the woodshed. Their choice.  

 

 

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This is too bad. 

My bucket list had a trip to Founders Ranch on it.

One take-away for me, and I suppose a few others, is not to invest in any "Life-time" opportunities.

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9 hours ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

If I have money invested in a company, or endeavor, that fails, I will want to know why, and they owe me at least that, or else I will visit them, in person, in the middle of the night, and find out. 

In this case, I had no money invested, but some did. 

 

Let's see....money.

I spend the precious, limited, finite moments of my earthly life, working...spending time away from hearth, and home, and family, in exchange for compensation, or legal tender, or money. 

Money represents the limited moments of my life.

If it is stolen, or misused, or misappropriated, or lost, through poor management, or incompetence, or greed, or theft, or bad luck, or happenstance, or through ignorance, or a legitimate reason, or a stupid reason...I will want to know why and what happened, or else.

 

It doesn't matter if they think they owe me an explanation or not. They may not want to make anything public, but they will tell me.

It may, or it may not, reflect on the character of those involved. There is no set rule that says it means nothing about the character of those involved. 

It may mean nothing, it may mean something. It is judged on a case by case basis. 

Bottom line, one has to take responsibility for actions, and results...and...some may have to answer for it...either in court, or a friendly meeting, over a glass of iced tea, at the local watering hole....or.....out behind the woodshed. Their choice.  

 

 

If you’re a true investor, then please take up the issue with your business partners and don’t speculatively impugn character here in a public forum. 
 

If you’re a customer of Founders Ranch, be sad that a nice shooting facility is gone, then move on. I had hoped to visit there one day, but it won’t happen now. 
 

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4 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

 

If you’re a customer of Founders Ranch, be sad that a nice shooting facility is gone, then move on. I had hoped to visit there one day, but it won’t happen now. 
 

Or maybe it will. Ya never know. Hope springs eternal.

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19 hours ago, Waxahachie Kid #17017 L said:

It is always nice to know the "why" of things. 

We only think the worst, when the "why" is not communicated.

I have fall back on the old adage:..."follow the money", until shown otherwise.

Like as not, things happen for a reason, or an excuse, and not for no reason, or excuse.

Someone, some entity, stands to gain, in some fashion, by this happening. Sounds like some people have, and will, lose some money on this deal.

If everything is on the up, and up, an explanation should be forthcoming. If this isn't on the up, and up, an explanation won't be forthcoming. 

The passing of time will reveal which of the two this falls under. 

 

 

There is a non-disclosure agreement in place that prevents either party from discussing the particulars of the negotiations, either party, and the potential sales agreement- including its challenges and ultimate failure. Nothing beyond the initial non-disclosure agreement was ever signed by either party in terms of the sale of the property and after 8 months of discussion and the "deal" being at an impasse, it was clear an agreement could not be reached.  Anything beyond that "explanation" cannot be discussed. 

 

Misty

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2 minutes ago, Misty Moonshine said:

 

There is a non-disclosure agreement in place that prevents either party from discussing the particulars of the negotiations, either party, and the potential sales agreement- including its challenges and ultimate failure. Nothing beyond the initial non-disclosure agreement was ever signed by either party in terms of the sale of the property and after 8 months of discussion and the "deal" being at an impasse, it was clear an agreement could not be reached.  Anything beyond that "explanation" cannot be discussed. 

 

Misty

How would a non disclosure agreement be binding on anyone if a deal was never reached?  That makes no sense.  I can understand wanting to keep the terms of a completed settlement confidential, but if no deal is reached, I think it kinda speaks for itself that there is no deal, and that includes any "deal" not to talk about it.

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51 minutes ago, El Chapo said:

How would a non disclosure agreement be binding on anyone if a deal was never reached?  That makes no sense.  I can understand wanting to keep the terms of a completed settlement confidential, but if no deal is reached, I think it kinda speaks for itself that there is no deal, and that includes any "deal" not to talk about it.

The NDA was most likely signed by all parties before they entered into negotiations, and the language written such that it is binding no matter the outcome of the negotiations. If either party talks to an outside person about anything, the other party gets to sue in civil court. 
 

What I do not understand is why folks are so interested in knowing something that is, quite frankly, none of our business.

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I shot a Sporting Clays practice session at FR Tuesday.  I had some clays left on my card I hoped to use up this month.  I sure enjoyed shooting CAS with local clubs at FR followed by a few rounds of 5-stand and then pizza at the Pizza Barn in Edgewood.  Now I just have fond memories of shooting there including EOT with many international shooters.  I find most things in life are temporary.  Enjoy opportunities the present brings.  Thanks to everyone who created a shooting playground.  :(

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21 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

The NDA was most likely signed by all parties before they entered into negotiations, and the language written such that it is binding no matter the outcome of the negotiations. If either party talks to an outside person about anything, the other party gets to sue in civil court. 
 

What I do not understand is why folks are so interested in knowing something that is, quite frankly, none of our business.

 

But why would a court enforce that?  If there's no agreement, there's no contract.  In other words, there's nothing for a court to enforce.

 

How is it none of our business?  End of trail was held there for how long?

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A Court would enforce it because there IS an agreement; not an agreement to sell the property, but rather an agreement to enter into negotiations, and to do so confidentially.  It is not uncommon for parties considering a complex or sensitive transaction to agree, before discussing terms, that all discussions and negotiations will occur without public disclosures.  That agreement is just as enforceable as any other.

LL

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I’m sorry if this question sounds dumb, I’m just a little confused on the history involved here.  Was Founders Ranch started/owned by the original owners of SASS?  Are they the Founders Ranch LLC?  And is Founders Ranch II, Inc the new owners of SASS?  I’m also confused on who owns the land vs who is using it.  I’m sure that those of you that have been around know the whole story, but, those of us new to the game don’t really know the back story.   

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