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If 357 Magnum had been available....


Buckshot Bear

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Yes, and they would have killed bears and buffalo with it and today there would be internet buttheads decrying it as an old man’s round and only the 6.5 Creedmore would be worthy of anyone’s attention for shooting out to 1000 yards as angels sang and no winds could deflect it. The round is a thing of the God’s and must be worshipped and revered and anyone not using it is to be shunned and blasphemed…

 

Ahem…got a little carried away. 
 

Oh wait…I think it wouldn’t have mattered about the .357. This stuff is going on today. Never mind. :D

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If the 357 had been available in 1873, that presupposes propellant and metallurgy was also available. Yes, it would have been popular as it has been since 1934 when it was introduced. 
 

But assuming gun evolution were 51 years advanced, what would we have to work with today?  

 

Hyper velocity rounds from recoilless pistols?

 

The 6.5 Creedmore, Rev 5?

 

The possibilities are mind boggling. 

 

 

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No, I don't think it would have been the first choice. In order to get the desired power using BP, you need that 250 gn bullet that the 45 Colt used. The 38-40 was the 357 mag of the BP erra.

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Imagine if Glocks had existed back in 1873. Wyatt Earp would've gotten very frustrated trying to hit people over the head with one! <_<

 

Then again, the Gunfight at the OK Corral would've lasted 3 seconds instead of 30, with 10x the number of shots fired and probably half as many casualties... unless you counted the bystanders as well.

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10 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

He'd just set himself on fire with it!

 

Actually, I’d probably turn blue/green and puke. Smoldering tobacco has never sat well with my constitution. 
 

If SDJ had offered a bottle of Jack Daniels, it would have been a different story. 

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10 minutes ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

If SDJ had offered a bottle of Jack Daniels, it would have been a different story. 

 

Talk about something that will make you turn green and puke!  :D

 

Wild Turkey or Dickle on the other hand....

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I think a more interesting question would be, if you had the smokeless powder and metals available for modern firearms then, how would the development of firearms changed?   
 

I expect that we might have never had a 38 spl.   It could have been shorter from the start as it didn’t need the length to hold black powder.  Same for 45 acp, pressure could have been higher from the get go with a shorter case.   

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If the .357 is so good. Why are the Cops turning to the .40 S&W that is about a dead ringer for the .38 WCF ????????????????

I still think a 40 cal. hole is better than a 35 cal. hole .... even better a .44 or .45 cal. hole...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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4 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

If the .357 is so good. Why are the Cops turning to the .40 S&W that is about a dead ringer for the .38 WCF ????????????????

I still think a 40 cal. hole is better than a 35 cal. hole .... even better a .44 or .45 cal. hole...

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

Most States in Australia the cops carry Glock 22's in .40S&W, there's rumours that they may be going back to 9mm as the lady cops and smaller framed cops (they dropped the police height & weight requirement) don't like the recoil of the 40s.

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47 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

If the .357 is so good. Why are the Cops turning to the .40 S&W that is about a dead ringer for the .38 WCF ????????????????

I still think a 40 cal. hole is better than a 35 cal. hole .... even better a .44 or .45 cal. hole...

 

Jabez Cowboy

Mostly because a revolver only holds 5 or 6 rounds and a Glock holds 15+.  While there are a few semi autos with rimmed cartridges, they work much better with rebated rims.  
 

also the more I play around with oddball cartridges, the more I can see there is not much new as far as ballistics.   Look at the 6.5 cm, it’s basically a 260 rem or 6.5 x 55.  Now by pushing the shoulder back it holds a longer bullet at 308 mag length better than a 260, but it doesn’t hit the target any harder. 

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On 11/29/2021 at 6:29 PM, Buckshot Bear said:

Most States in Australia the cops carry Glock 22's in .40S&W, there's rumours that they may be going back to 9mm as the lady cops and smaller framed cops (they dropped the police height & weight requirement) don't like the recoil of the 40s.

 

Sounds like your political leaders are just as dumb as ours. If you're going to play professional basketball you had better be at least 6' 5". A little 5' 2" runt ain't gonna make it. If you want to work in a warehouse you'd better have a strong back. And if you want to be a cop you'd better be big and strong enough to be able to wrestle with some scumbag who wants to take your own gun away and kill you with it.

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On 11/29/2021 at 6:23 PM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

If the .357 is so good. Why are the Cops turning to the .40 S&W that is about a dead ringer for the .38 WCF ????????????????

I still think a 40 cal. hole is better than a 35 cal. hole .... even better a .44 or .45 cal. hole...

 

Jabez Cowboy

The .357 was good, and until the advent of reliable 9mm double stack pistols and very good performing hollow points, it dominated the

rest.  Most police organizations started transitioning in the 80's and 90's from six shooter revolvers to 15 round SA pistols about that time.

 

The caliber wars continue to this day, going from 9mm to .40 seemed a great idea at the time, it being more controllable and less

damaging (to the guns) than the 10mm.  After a good decade though the FBI and other agencies are switching back to 9mm for several

reasons, including very good performing 9mm ammo, more easily controlled firearms (recoil affecting follow on shots), and reduced cost for

both ammo and firearms.

 

Fact of the matter is, whether you have a 9mm expanding to .67 caliber, or a .45 expanding to .80 caliber, like as not it might just take

several shots to stop the bad guy, and if he's running with a pack of feral humans like so many seem to do now in our urban

areas, being ready to place multiple solid and accurate hits on each of several bad guys may be needed. 

 

The earlier comment about the gunfight at the O.K. Corral was amusing, but I suspect Earp and any other serious pistolero of the times

would have taken a few minutes out of their busy schedule to familiarize themselves with the guns, before going armed with them.

 

It's interesting to speculate where firearm and cartridge development could have gone with modern metallurgy and smokeless powder

back in the 1870's.  A Colt SAA in .357 with a mdl 92 in same caliber makes a pretty good fighting and game getting set up. 

 

Good stuff to ponder of a shot or two of single malt.

 

Stay safe,

 

SC

 

 

 

 

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On 11/29/2021 at 4:11 PM, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Talk about something that will make you turn green and puke!  :D

 

Wild Turkey or Dickle on the other hand....

Dickle, maybe but not th Kickin' Chicken. (shudder!)

 

The worst hang over I ever had was after a night of drinking Wild Turkey.  I woke upon the landing of the stairs in my townhouse, wedged under the bottom tread of the second flight, with my legs dead asleep because, for some reason, they were straight up the wall.  That was on top of the searing headache an the vile taste in my mouth.

 

That was when I decided to swap to Beam's.

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