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Schofield in a 45 colt rifle?


Dark Horse Charlie

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So I have an early 90s Rossi 92 trapper in 45 colt that holds 9 in the tube. Does anyone know if I can run 45 Schofields through this particular rifle without jamming? And also is there a big enough difference in the cases that I could run 10 in the tube and not have to worry about reloads?

 

I just purchased some 45 sch brass to use in a BP conversion and got to think about the rifle. Don't have any made up yet to check

 

Thanks Dark Horse

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It is likely to not feed very smoothly and will likely cause jams because the shorter case will not line up properly with the cartridge guides.

 

That said i would still try it and see what happens

 

How much do you lack of getting the 10th round to load?

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I’ve shot them in my Winchester Trapper without any problems. Mine also will hold ten in the magazine tube.

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

It is likely to not feed very smoothly and will likely cause jams because the shorter case will not line up properly with the cartridge guides.

 

That said i would still try it and see what happens

 

How much do you lack of getting the 10th round to load?

Last time I tried I got about 1/3 of the case in.

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The rim being larger than 45 Colt might cause problems as well as the shorter length.  Not likely to feed well, but you never know.  I've heard of some folks mention that their '92 fed some short cartridge or another that seemed unlikely.  The longer OAL that you can get with the round, the better.   They feed great in my '73 but that doesn't help you.

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The shorter case is only part of the equation. With the shorter case you may be able to use a bullet to get an optimum OAL. I use a 429421 Keith in a 44 Spl case to run in a Rossi '92. In it, if you run too short an OAL it will jam.

 

With a 45 S&W Schofield you gain about 0.175" per cartridge, with the same bullet in each. Nine full length 45 Colt cartridges are 9 x 1.6" = 14.4". Divided by 10 that equals 1.44" per cartridge. I'm thinking that if you can keep the OAL at 1.44" the ammunition will feed. The max OAL for a 45 S&W Schofield is  1.43". There is a bit to be gained by trimming the magazine tube spring. The follower may be a limiting factor, but usually the spring stacks before the follower bottoms. But, make sure the inside of the follower is radiused to allow the spring to stack into it and not bind. I run ten 38 Spl in my nine round '66 trapper. I can go 1.5" OAL and still load ten.  

 

It's kind of a bullet and case balancing game. Some of the 45 bullets give a shorter OAL than others. If you use a LEE FCD, you can crimp in the shank of the bullet instead of the in the crimp groove. 

 

Some shooter find a truncated cone shape is best, I prefer a RNFP with a gentle slope. I use a good crimp, no neck to catch the chamber when it slides in. 

 

BB

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Out of the Box, Bogg stock, Probably not.  The right cartridge guide will probably need shimming.  You may also need to drop to 160Gr bullets.  May well encounter stovepiping.  As mentioned, reducing the Mag Spring will also help.  

 

I would also suggest you source up Nate Kiowa Jones disk on what a Rossi '92 needs.  Best of Luck.

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Had a similar issue many many years ago when I first started.  My first lever action was a 94 trapper in 44mag.  Had it before I ever heard of cowboy action.  Dang fine rifle, still love to shoot it.  But it only holds 9 in the tube.  I tried 44specials, but they would jam as often as not.  I usually dropped the last round in the chamber until I got my "rifle length" 92.

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I had a Rossi 92 in 357 that would shoot 38spl. One would think the 45 version would shoot the Scofield rounds unless the rim is a issue. I am watching this with interest as the Rossi I have now is a 45. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I fired factory 45 caliber Schofield cartridges in my Winchester Trapper 45 Colt caliber rifle without any issues. Not reloads.

All ten from the tube.

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I have a Cimarron '66 in 38 Spl with a 9 round magazine. I trimmed a bit off the magazine tube, and went with a bit shorter OAL. 

 

Basically, do the math first. 9 rounds of 45 LC will be 1.6 x 9  = 14.4" Divided by 10 to give you the length of each of ten rounds that would fit in 14.4 inches. 

 

Therefore if your 45 LC ammo was 1.44" in length 10 would fit where 9 cartridges 1.6" would fit. Add a bit for the trimmed spring and if your ammo was 1.45" long, it would hold 10, and 1.45 is only 0.150" short of max, i think it would work. Also, the SAAMI cartridge min is 1.515, so I think you have a good chance of it working. 

 

I'd suggest making up some dummies in 45 S&W Schofield of varying lengths and determine the limitations of feeding reliably and go from there. 

 

In my '66, my 38 Spl ammo is 1.5" long. 

 

My son has a 44 Mag Rossi 92, a too long cartridge will give you a serious jam, I can only imagine at some point a too short round will as well. 

 

To tailor  the length, I ended up crimping in the shank of the bullet. In reality my bullet has no crimp or lube grooves, just a Hi-Tek coated 147 gr 9mm bullet cast a wee bit large. 

 

https://i.imgur.com/tnNLR0S.jpg

 

 

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A couple thoughts: Rossi makes their 92 in .38/.357, .44Spl/.44Mag, and .45Colt. Unless the rim stops it, and you already said that 9 would fit, ten should work. If they can work with Spl and Mags, in the other calibers, the .45 should do the same. WITH the caveat that the actions can be OAL finicky. 

Rossi uses the same magazine spring for all barrel lengths. So your 16" barreled rifle actually has the same spring that a 24" barreled rifle would. That means that the spring, as someone else posted, is "stacking", that is bottoming out on itself, taking up space in the magazine tube it doesn't need to. I would cut a few coils off until ten rounds fit. 

The other thing I have found on my .357 Rossi, is that reducing the ejector spring length allowed some "give" for lack of a better term" in it so that it didn't push the cartridges as hard during cycling, and so allowed for easier feeding. Before I did that, I had numerous feeding problems. Now I don't. 

Good luck!

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See if a Schofield round will fit on the bolt or not. Also, my Rossi will not allow a Schofield round through the gate. Seems like a lot of work for something that may not work and at worst, may ruin the gun. Maybe you can trade the gun off for a 20 inch barrel model.

bolt.jpg.ab20683bce94e3fca3456dfb6f47fec7.jpg

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Howdy all! Sorry for the delay but had some family issues pop up. 

 

Thanks for the info. I am loading up some Schofield rounds this weekend and plan on testing things out. Obviously see if they even fit through the gate first and then worry about the tube and spring.

 

I'll keep you posted!

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Update! So I tried loading and cycling a few rounds. Good news is they feed fine. No issues through the gate. I was able to cycle the first round into the chamber and out. But the next round did not push back out of the tube and load. Cycled again and it popped, but the next one wouldn't cycle. So just to check I loaded with a full tube of 45 colt and the same thing happened? 

 

So not sure what is going on now? Was eventually able to cycle all the 45 colts without popping the tube, but took some time.

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We had to open up the loading gate on my brother-in-laws
Rossi to get the rounds in. Once there the rifle worked find. We found the 200 gr 45acp swc was an excellent bullet to use in 45 Scofield. Years ago I shortened some 45 Colt to Scofield length and they worked fine with the ACP bullet in a Rossi.  The rifle held plenty so sticking the ACP bullet being a little long was no problem. Friends who started out with the old Winchester 94 trappers in 45 Colt used Scofield just fine , We used  Scofield in my Marlin and the Rossi when we had stages that you cold load as many as it would hold. , Don't see anything but 10-10-4 most of the time nowadays

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sounds like a rough spot in the mag tube/receiver junction area.  Look for burrs or a ledge that keeps rounds from sliding out of mag tube and onto the carrier.  If you can get one to run, then that means the carrier geometry is close enough.  I think you are close, just have to get parts smoothed out where you have a hang up.

 

good luck, GJ

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1 hour ago, Dark Horse Charlie said:

Update! So I tried loading and cycling a few rounds. Good news is they feed fine. No issues through the gate. I was able to cycle the first round into the chamber and out. But the next round did not push back out of the tube and load. Cycled again and it popped, but the next one wouldn't cycle. So just to check I loaded with a full tube of 45 colt and the same thing happened? 

 

So not sure what is going on now? Was eventually able to cycle all the 45 colts without popping the tube, but took some time.

Ck all screws for tightness 

OLG 

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 Remove the butt stock and flush out the action with NON-CHLORINATED carb cleaner. 
 

If you removed the left cartridge guide did you get the spring reinstalled correctly?

 

Do you have a plastic or metal follower?  If plastic replace it with a metal one. 
 

 Remove the mag cap and inspect the mag tube. If it is not clean and shiny, polish it with a brass cleaning brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool. Chuck a cleaning rod in your drill and use plenty of oil. 
 

 Then using a bore mop, wax the inside with a good car wax. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 Remove the butt stock and flush out the action with NON-CHLORINATED carb cleaner. 
 

If you removed the left cartridge guide did you get the spring reinstalled correctly?

 

Do you have a plastic or metal follower?  If plastic replace it with a metal one. 
 

 Remove the mag cap and inspect the mag tube. If it is not clean and shiny, polish it with a brass cleaning brush wrapped with 0000 steel wool. Chuck a cleaning rod in your drill and use plenty of oil. 
 

 Then using a bore mop, wax the inside with a good car wax. 

 

Wow!

 

Rifle is completely stock and a mid 90s make. I have stevegunz bookmarked. The spring seems solid but the follower is plastic. Never really thought of polishing the mag tube.

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2 hours ago, Dark Horse Charlie said:

Wow!

 

Rifle is completely stock and a mid 90s make. I have stevegunz bookmarked. The spring seems solid but the follower is plastic. Never really thought of polishing the mag tube.

 

Inside of the mag tube will corrode.  The fine steel wool will remove any corrosion.  I use a good hard car wax and wax/buff the inside of the mag tube to a mirror finish. Chuck a cleaning rod in the drill and spin the bore mop.

 

The issue with the plastic follower is that as they age the plastic deteriorates. Some cleaning chemicals will also attack the plastic and make it swell.

 

An easy test of a plastic follower is to insert it into the mag tube and then sit a bullet on top of it. It should easily slide through the mag tube by gravity alone.

 

The spring should stick out 5 or 6 inches past the end of the mag tube.

 

Both Steve's Gunz and Beartooth Mercantile sell metal followers.

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Whether or not anyones Toggle Link guns will run 45 Schofield is quite immaterial.  Totally different operating system.  The OP is asking about a Rossi '92.  Not a toggle link gun.  Most '92s can and will run 45 Schofield.  The guns may however, require a little tweeking.  Such as shimming the right side cartridge guide to help prevent stovepiping.  Tuning the Extractor.  Tuning the ejector.  tuning the cartridge stop.  Or it may be one of those rare bears that runs Schofield right out of the box (highly unlikely).  Oh, and I'd also take hard look at the magazine spring.  I'm betting it's 4 to five inches too long and a stainless steel follower is a great idea.

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