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Remington 1858 revolver problem


Nickel City Dude
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A friend of mine brought me a Remingtion 1858 revolver made by Pieta.  It is a nice looking gun but the cylinder will over travel when cocked.  I took it apart by removing the trigger guard, bolt, trigger, hand & hammer.  The hand looks ok and the hand spring seams to have some good tension.  The hammer/tumbler look ok along with the bolt.  Can anyone tell me what would cause the cylinder to over travel?  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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Maybe check the legs on the bolt.  See if there is interference between it and the hammer that is making it unlock.  

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9 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said:

A friend of mine brought me a Remingtion 1858 revolver made by Pieta.  It is a nice looking gun but the cylinder will over travel when cocked.  I took it apart by removing the trigger guard, bolt, trigger, hand & hammer.  The hand looks ok and the hand spring seams to have some good tension.  The hammer/tumbler look ok along with the bolt.  Can anyone tell me what would cause the cylinder to over travel?  Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

 

Check the fit of the bolt to the notches in the cylinder. Pietta C&B pistols are known for having a bolt that is too wide to properly fit the notches.

 

Here are the instructions for properly fixing the issue. The open top instructions for bolt fit also apply to the 58s

 

 

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Thanks for the link.  I will read it in depth later.  I checked the bold to cylinder fit and it is fine.  I was thinking that maybe if I shorten the hand it would not push the cylinder to over travel.  Sound like a plan?

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You took it apart so obviously the bolt side of the combination spring is there. If you didn't check it it may be cracked. The hand spring is more than likely the culprit. It may be cracked or too weak for the hand to keep sufficient pressure on the ratchet. Part of it's job (the secondary job) is to keep a braking force on the cylinder to keep "throw-by" from happening. 

  The process for installing the hand on a Remington makes it fairly easy to compress the spring too much and that is probably the problem. As long as the bolt fits, is not rounded over and is dropping on the cylinder before the locking notch, it probably just needs to have the spring bent to the rear some. A picture would help with a diagnosis.

 

Mike

 

 

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10 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Does it do it when you cock fast or slow or both?  Makes a difference.  

It doesn't matter slow or fast it will still over travel.  The hand spring is in good shape and seams to have a good deal of tension in it.

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Typically the bolt springs have too much tension which is why they break but, if it is cracked or weak, it may not be moving the bolt far enough. The bolt only needs about 4 lbs pressure, pretty easy to push down with your finger, but it needs to have full movement.  

  A lot of Remingtons I get in the shop have bolt faces that are fit from the factory with a negative angle ( slants backwards from right to left). This is wrong fitting and promotes throw-by. The face of the bolt should be perfectly vertical (90°) with sharp (but broken) top edge.

 

Mike

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45 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said:

Thanks for the link.  I will read it in depth later.  I checked the bold to cylinder fit and it is fine.  I was thinking that maybe if I shorten the hand it would not push the cylinder to over travel.  Sound like a plan?

 

That would be my best guess.  It would be the lower tooth of the hand that needed shortening. .

 

Although weak bolt spring could be involved as well.  Good luck.

Edited by Abilene, SASS # 27489
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So when you cock it slow, even after the bolt has locked the cylinder in place the hand is still trying to rotate the cylinder? Or does it not lock and just bypasses the bolt slot in the cylinder? Over travel when cocking slow is pretty difficult to do it the bolt actually fits the cylinder slots.

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If the bolt locks it, you won't be able to continue with the cycle. 

 The lock-up and full cock happens simultaneously.  Ideally, there is a  couple thousandths play at full cock with the cylinder (thumb still on the hammer). This assures "parts protection" and as accurate an action cycle as you can get. Of course without a bolt block in place, I would not have any guarantee of the last statement.

 

Mike

Edited by 45 Dragoon
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I just talked to the owner of the gun.  I asked him if the cylinder was original to the gun.  He said yes but he had a broken hand spring and purchased a kit to replace it which included a new hand.  I can now see why the hand is too tall for the gun, because it is the wrong hand.  He is trying to find the original hand and with any luck I will be able to take the spring out of the new hand and install it on the old hand.  I will post once I have tried it.

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Wrong hand or just one that has to be timed to the gun? Hands are rarely a drop-in part.

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59 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said:

I just talked to the owner of the gun.  I asked him if the cylinder was original to the gun.  He said yes but he had a broken hand spring and purchased a kit to replace it which included a new hand.  I can now see why the hand is too tall for the gun, because it is the wrong hand.  He is trying to find the original hand and with any luck I will be able to take the spring out of the new hand and install it on the old hand.  I will post once I have tried it.

I am in the process of stoning down my hand on my '58, mine is better now, but i still need to take some material off.

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33 minutes ago, 45 Dragoon said:

Well, there is no "lower step" or 2nd finger to the hand. It is a single fingered hand in a '58 so go slowly.

 

Mike

Yes, I will take it slow if he cannot find the original hand.  I meant to state that this hand does not have a lower step so if he can't find the old hand I will start to trim it down until I can get it to work.

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Because the hand on a 58 is held by a screw and not a pin, you can easily align the new and old hand with a close fitting drill bit shank. 

 

With the two hands aligned you can easily see where the new hand needs stoning. This is a lot less risky than trying to remove the spring from the new hand and installing in the old one.

 

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Because the hand on a 58 is held by a screw and not a pin, you can easily align the new and old hand with a close fitting drill bit shank. 

 

With the two hands aligned you can easily see where the new hand needs stoning. This is a lot less risky than trying to remove the spring from the new hand and installing in the old one.

 

Good idea!  If he can find the old hand I will try that.  Thanks for the tip.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I am OP.  He could not find the original hand so I went to work on the hand that is in there now.  I took out the hand and marked the side edge with a marker pen so I would know how much I have taken off and proceeded to grind of some off the tip of the hand.  I had to reassemble and disassemble several times but I finally got the cylinder to index properly.   I had some trouble with determing when it was fixed because when I cocked slowly it would index OK but when I cocked fast it would still over travel.  After several times dissasembling grinding some off and then reassembling I go it to work fast or slow.

Thanks for the advice and help.

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40 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said:

I am OP.  He could not find the original hand so I went to work on the hand that is in there now.  I took out the hand and marked the side edge with a marker pen so I would know how much I have taken off and proceeded to grind of some off the tip of the hand.  I had to reassemble and disassemble several times but I finally got the cylinder to index properly.   I had some trouble with determing when it was fixed because when I cocked slowly it would index OK but when I cocked fast it would still over travel.  After several times dissasembling grinding some off and then reassembling I go it to work fast or slow.

Thanks for the advice and help.

 

And that’s why a good gunsmith charges so much, a lot of fitting, assembly, try it, disassemble, re-fit, repeat.  A pard asked me to take a look at his SxS because he couldn’t shuck the shells.  When I got it to the shop and looked at it the chamber looked like someone took a Dremel to it and gouged it.  That one simple repair took 10 hours of sanding and honing to get them smoothed out again. 

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