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Magazine tube detonation


Hoss
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Uberti Win 73, probably 10K plus rounds on it. Short stroked, tuned etc. shooting 130 grn RNFP Bullets with 3.0 Bullseye. Loaded with Dillon 750

 

Fired 5 rounds. 5th round made an odd noise, normal sound plus a POP I did not feel anything unusual. Case ejected. Then rifle jammed. Looking in, I could see lead had pushed back into case. I figured “split case” tried to clear it, no luck. TO said sounded funny, you may have a squib. I grounded rifle, declaring “BROKE GUN”. Finished stage. 
back to rifle this is what I found 

Round 6 shoved back into case. Round 7 blown out. Round 8 lead set back a bit, rounds 9 & 10 normal. 
 

I suspect round 6 set off round 7. Don’t think I had a high primer but could have. The recoil drove the Bullet back into the case of round 6. The Bullet coming out of round 7 hit 8, driving it into 9, setting Bullet deeper in case a bit. Rounds 9&10 were unaffected. 
no damage to rifle. I suspect I was unluckily lucky! 
 

only lesson I can think of is double or triple check primers! 
 

 

 

 

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Edited by Hoss
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My best guess, you had a magazine detonation which causes the shells to compress. It's a 38? If the magazine tube is oversize the shells line up something like this \\\\\\\ (not in a straight line). Someone sells a reducer to keep 38s more nose to tail. Here is an example:   https://www.badmanbullets.com/OnlineStore/proddetail.php?prod=Uberti-Magazine-Sleeve-Kit

Edited by Lazy Eeyour
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Kinda has me thinking about one of those alignment sleeves!

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I'd guess that there was a high primer on round 7.  Round 6 popped out of mag tube onto carrier followed close behind by the rear quarter inch of cartridge 7.   Since you seem to have cartridge OAL about 1.550 or so from looking at cartridge 9 and 10.   With round 6 and a little of 7 on the carrier, round 5 was fired and the recoil slammed the 7, 8, 9 and 10 cartridges rearward and a high primer on round 7  impacted the nose of round 6.   The force of round 7 firing collapsed the bullet of 6 into the case.   And that blew open the brass of round 7, and pushed the bullet out at low speed to slam into the back of round 8.   Which set bullet 8 back into it's case.

 

If that is what caused the round ignition in the carrier, then no alignment tube would have prevented this.   Because the head of round 7 is as free to move side to side (or up and down) as the channel in the carrier allows.  

 

Seating all primers to proper depth is REAL important.  As is discarding any cases in which primer pocket is too loose to firmly hold the primer, in case the primer was rattling around in the pocket as the gun was being fired..

 

Answers to a couple of questions would help make a better guess, though.   Where was round 6 found?  Still on carrier?   Or partially into chamber?   Was the case on round 6 deformed (other than having a bullet shoved back in the mouth)?   Does the carrier show any new burn or scratch marks in the cartridge channel?  Did the cases from rounds 1 thru 5 all still have a fired primer in the case, or had one gotten loose to rattle around in the action?

 

good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708
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47 minutes ago, Hoss said:

The Bullet coming out of round 7 hit 8, driving it into 9, setting Bullet deeper in case a bit. Rounds 9&10 were unaffected. 
no damage to rifle. I suspect I was unluckily lucky! 

 

Glad you and the rifle are ok!  I was timing a gentleman when the entire magazine detonated in his '73.  Nothing left but the barrel!  Magazine ballooned and split, the forearm exploded into splinters.   His very good shooting glasses saved his eyes.  He went to the ER to get metal splinters taken out of his face. 

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14 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

I'd guess that there was a high primer on round 7.  Round 6 popped out of mag tube onto carrier followed close behind by the rear quarter inch of cartridge 7.   Since you seem to have cartridge OAL about 1.550 or so from looking at cartridge 9 and 10.   With round 6 and a little of 7 on the carrier, round 5 was fired and the recoil slammed the 7, 8, 9 and 10 cartridges rearward and a high primer on round 7  impacted the nose of round 6.   The force of round 7 firing collapsed the bullet of 6 into the case.   And that blew open the brass of round 7, and pushed the bullet out at low speed to slam into the back of round 8.   Which set bullet 8 back into it's case.

 

If that is what caused the round ignition in the carrier, then no alignment tube would have prevented this.   Because the head of round 7 is as free to move side to side (or up and down) as the channel in the carrier allows.  

 

Seating all primers to proper depth is REAL important.  As is discarding any cases in which primer pocket is too loose to firmly hold the primer, in case the primer was rattling around in the pocket as the gun was being fired..

 

good luck, GJ

I look at primers, certainly did not see a high one. But not saying it’s impossible. 

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This happenend to me with a Uberti Henry 45 colt. The case blew apart and out of the bottom of magazine right above where I was holding it. The magazine had a bulg in it and my hand was split open like a Butterflied Shrimp. Took about 20 stitches.

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So Hoss, this happened at the same range where Catorce had his magazine detonation a few months ago?  And the day before Halloween?  The range is haunted, I tell ya! 

 

But I'm glad it was minor.

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35 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

So Hoss, this happened at the same range where Catorce had his magazine detonation a few months ago?  And the day before Halloween?  The range is haunted, I tell ya! 

 

But I'm glad it was minor.

:o

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12 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

This is making me re-think about buying an installing a Bullet Alignment Kit.

 

Anyone have the Sure Hits Carbon Fibre model?

 

http://www.surehitsights.com/page-2.html

I have it, So far so good!

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1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

May I ask the brand of primer?

Agree 110% it was a high primer.

The alignment sleeve is a very good idea!

OLG 

Federal SPP

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12 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

This is making me re-think about buying an installing a Bullet Alignment Kit.

 

Anyone have the Sure Hits Carbon Fibre model?

 

http://www.surehitsights.com/page-2.html

I had one of the Carbon fiber versions, & it stuck to the inside of the magazine as if it were welded. I had a heck of a time getting it out. I think the alum ones are much easier to work with. I have used the alum ones from Jimmy Spurs & from Lefty Wheeler. My wife & I have shot thousands of rounds with & without the inserts. The premise sounds great, but in reality I can't tell any difference with or without. It does seem to eliminate or at least minimize corrosion on the inside of the mag tube.

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12 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said:

This is making me re-think about buying an installing a Bullet Alignment Kit.

 

Anyone have the Sure Hits Carbon Fibre model?

 

http://www.surehitsights.com/page-2.html

I've been very happy with the Aluminum tube. I know that some of you are going to give me a head slap, but sometimes I will hose things out with Brake Cleaner before I do a complete re-lube job. Well, the Brake Cleaner got into the magazine and the fiber tube and caused it to disintegrate and actually occasionally keep some of the cartridges from feeding into the carrier. I switched to an Aluminum tube and have never had any further problem. Last month I had a guy bring me a 73 because he was having occasional problems with ammo getting stuck in the magazine. Sure enough it was another fiber tube that had greatly deteriorated causing the problem. The tube wouldn't slide out so I had to remove the magazine and ended up driving it out. Sure enough, this guy also used Brake cleaner. Right or Wrong, I've used it for many years on guns as a cleaning agent to completely remove all traces of oil and grease. Then of course you must re-lube everything. Also, keep it off the wood.  I believe that other products also have an effect on the fiber tubes too.  

Edited by Snakebite
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The picture of the primer says a lot!

You can see where the bullet was hitting the primer.  And without a back plate, the rest of the primer expanded backwards.

 

So the bullets was very slightly misaligned, but maybe a combination of that with a slightly high primer.

 

So glad it was a reduced pressure load so no real damage!

 

I have the aluminum sleeve and made sure to coat both the sleeve and mag tube with rust preventative.

Grease worked pretty well but I then changed to frog lube and it is even better.

So Boeshield, frog lube, Eezox and even a good wax should work well to reduce chances of rust.

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1.  Whether or not you prime on the press, your shellplate is too loose if a high primer doesn't stop the case from advance from station 1 to 2, (powder drop).

 

2.  Or case has too loose a primer pocket.

 

3.  A bullet with a wider meplat will have more of the nose in contact with rear of case, lessening impact from primer.

 

4.  For tubular magazine guns the safest bullets have a meplat that contacts all the way around the primer pocket.

 

 

I'm inclined to think #2.   AND glad it wasn't worse! 

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Goodness! I might have fainted or wet my drawers! :blush:  scary!  I am really particular about checking all my primers - not just pistol - but have thought, “hmmm that will be ok in rifle… “ no more!

 

I have the aluminum sleeve from Jimmy Spurs - Cowboy Gunworks. I also have a knurled brass end cap (full disclosure - I sell them) which makes it VERY VERY easy to remove… so I regularly remove the sleeve, spring and follower to clean -@Marauder SASS #13056 :ph34r: so you don’t have to load up on the grease just run a patch or two through there when you clean your rifle! :D  Cleaning the Mag tube is a part of equipment maintenance. But I’m a nerd that way. :P

 

Really glad you’re ok @Hoss  Super scary. 
 

Big Big hugs!

Scarlett

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On 11/1/2021 at 8:06 PM, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

Glad there was no damage  At first glance it looks like the 6th round may have had the bullet impacting on the primer of the 7th round causing the "pop".  Perhaps a high primer on the 7th round?  Just a WAG.

 

WAG?

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