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12G Black Powder Reloading...????


Rancho Roy
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A few quick questions on loading 12g BP shotshells....

 

Since getting REAL BP here in Massachusetts can be a real challenge, I'll mostly be using Substitutes....APP, Shockey, etc

 

#1. Fiber or plastic wads?

#2. Folded crimp or cut the shells a glued in cardboard?

#3. Roll crimp? (What do you use?)

#4. 1 to 1 load by weight?.... Or by volume?

#5. Favorite 12 BP load?

 

Thanks

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For real BP I use:

Gold Remington STS Hulls

Claybuster 7/8oz gray wads

45-48gr of Real BP

7/8oz #7.5 lead shot

 

I use a MEC Sizemaster press and a Lyman BP Measure as a separate step, no powder on the press itself.

 

I'm too lazy to mess with roll crimps and fiber wads. No need for 1-1 and no need for more than 7/8oz of shot IMO. Whatever amount of sub that equals 45-48gr of BP is plenty of power; sorry can't remember where a conversion chart is.

 

 

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I'm not a huge black powder shooter but have shot the last couple smoke in the woods shoots here in Ohio. I load using remington gun club shells on a MEC Jr i think it is. I use pyrodex, anywhere from 65 to 80 grains by volume depending on how much I want my shoulder to hurt. I use a plastic wad, I can get you a part number when I get home if you want. And I just use the crimp built into the MEC nothing extra. This has worked for me for a few years now hope it helps.

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Look up the previous “cowboy chronicle” not the latest, and there is a great article by Capt. George Baylor that’ll help you a lot.   https://www.sassnet.com/Downloads/21eChron/21JulyChron.pdf   Start at page 26.   
 

I use plastic wad, roll crimp, and 1 oz lead over 34-36 grns by weight of APP 3Fg.  Thanks the #ScarlettDarlin’ for the recipe.   

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Any BP/sub more than 35 grains by weight with 7/8 to 1 ounce of shot. BP and sub shotgun shells ain't picky, just about any hull and any wad that gives a good crimp will do. I've even reloaded some of the cheap 6 point crimp shells, they aren't pretty but stay closed long enough to go bang.

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1.9cc Lee dipper of APP, 7/8 oz shot, plastic wad, regular crimp in either an AA or STS hull works fine for me.

 

Kajun

Edited by Krazy Kajun
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24 minutes ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:

Any BP/sub more than 35 grains by weight with 7/8 to 1 ounce of shot. BP and sub shotgun shells ain't picky, just about any hull and any wad that gives a good crimp will do. I've even reloaded some of the cheap 6 point crimp shells, they aren't pretty but stay closed long enough to go bang.

Well I guess I'm not legit... Seeing as how I use 35gr of BP.

 

:wacko:

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Shot shell is pretty easy.  I started with a square load.  Ie bp equal to the volume of my shot.  used Lee dippers to get the volumes, then weighed it to get an actual charge weight. 
 

Then compared that to the dram equivalents to make sure I wasn’t over loading.  Then just found a wad that fit and crimped well.  Worked well and was on the lighter end of loads people published. 

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1 hour ago, Rattlesnake Slim said:

Any BP/sub more than 35 grains by weight with 7/8 to 1 ounce of shot. BP and sub shotgun shells ain't picky, just about any hull and any wad that gives a good crimp will do. I've even reloaded some of the cheap 6 point crimp shells, they aren't pretty but stay closed long enough to go bang.

Well I wouldn't shoot a Zombie with a 6 point crimp shell. :ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Krazy Kajun said:

1.9cc Lee dipper of APP, 7/8 oz shot, plastic wad, regular crimp in either an AA or STS hull works fine for me.

 

Kajuc

You've changed your recipe!

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3 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

For real BP I use:

Gold Remington STS Hulls

Claybuster 7/8oz gray wads

45-48gr of Real BP

7/8oz #7.5 lead shot

 

I use a MEC Sizemaster press and a Lyman BP Measure as a separate step, no powder on the press itself.

 

I'm too lazy to mess with roll crimps and fiber wads. No need for 1-1 and no need for more than 7/8oz of shot IMO. Whatever amount of sub that equals 45-48gr of BP is plenty of power; sorry can't remember where a conversion chart is.

 

 

 

Remington STS

Claybuster 7/8oz gray wads

50-55gr GOEX

7/8oz #7.5 Lead Shot

 

I use a MEC 600 Jr and LEE Dippers for volume

I just use the crimp on the MEC

 

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I use 3.1 cc of 3F real BP, a pink wad and 1 oz. of #8 in all different hulls. Mostly Fiochi pre-primed (with a roll crimp) or AA w/ fed. 209A primer. With a substitute you would need less to avoid compression of the powder.  They knock 'em down.

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Well I guess I'm not legit... Seeing as how I use 35gr of BP.

 

:wacko:

 

You can submit a "Modification Consideration Form" to the Intergalactic Federation of Smokey Shotgunners and we will consider altering the requirements. Remember, we're stronger together. :D

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32 minutes ago, Max Payne said:

You've changed your recipe!

That’s my recipe for 7/8 oz load, it’s a little different for a 1oz load of shot. For a few drachmas I might be persuaded to release that extry top secret recipe! :lol:

 

Kajun

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Looks like I'm on the high side with my load.  I use a 4.0cc Lee dipper which, if I recall correctly, corresponds to about 68 grains of FFFg or FFg BP with a Winchester Red Wad and 7/8 oz. shot in a AA hull.  I do get comments on the BOOM, smoke and flame, tho.  :D 

 

I may need to look into cutting back on that considering the current crunch on the Black Powder market.

 

Angus

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6 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

Looks like I'm on the high side with my load.  I use a 4.0cc Lee dipper which, if I recall correctly, corresponds to about 68 grains of FFFg or FFg BP with a Winchester Red Wad and 7/8 oz. shot in a AA hull.  I do get comments on the BOOM, smoke and flame, tho.  :D 

 

I may need to look into cutting back on that considering the current crunch on the Black Powder market.

 

Angus

I think you got enough dynamite there Angus….  In honor of you shotgun load, enjoy the clip. 

 

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About 20 years ago, the gold standard that a lot of folks used was 4.3cc of BP (approximately 60 grains), 1 oz of shot in a red wad, in a AA or STS hull.  I'm still using it except I'm using 1 1/8 oz of shot.   I will use Fg if I have it.  Last weekend at the Texas BP championship, several commented on the flame!

 

11 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

...I may need to look into cutting back on that considering the current crunch on the Black Powder market.

 

Angus

 

I may as well.

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The shell, the crimp and the combo of powder/shot are personal preferences.  If I’m shooting a SxS then I use brass shells with fiber wads, etc. etc., if I’m shooting an ‘87 then it’s plastic with a roll crimp.  Just remember plastic shells don’t hold up with BP as long as with smokeless (I load’em once and then throw’em away) and plastic wads will give you a barrel snake. 

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Gun Club, STS, of Cheddite hull. Resize the base in a collet style sizer for consistent performance.

Primer of choice

Claybuster CB0178-12 wad

35 grains by weight of 3F APP, Black MZ, or Shooters World Black. Seat the wad firmly in the powder charge.

7/8 oz of shot (I have an adjustable charge bar and adjust the load to get a good crimp.

 

Yusta B gave me the above load when he lured me over to the dark side with a plate of cookies. :) It has never failed to knock down a SG target as long as I do my part. 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

... Just remember plastic shells don’t hold up with BP as long as with smokeless (I load’em once and then throw’em away) ...

 

I hope people continue to follow this advice (July Smith, I'm talking to you!  Thanks for the hulls :) ) .  I pick the gold nitro hulls out of the buckets at matches that have been shot once or twice and tossed.  I get at least 5 more BP loads out of them!  The outside starts getting rough but they still shuck great from a Baikal and TTN.  I toss them when the crimp starts cracking, or they get pinholes.

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18 hours ago, Rancho Roy said:

A few quick questions on loading 12g BP shotshells....

 

Since getting REAL BP here in Massachusetts can be a real challenge, I'll mostly be using Substitutes....APP, Shockey, etc

 

#1. Fiber or plastic wads?

#2. Folded crimp or cut the shells a glued in cardboard?

#3. Roll crimp? (What do you use?)

#4. 1 to 1 load by weight?.... Or by volume?

#5. Favorite 12 BP load?

 

Thanks

 

Mec Brass hulls

Whatever Large Pistol Primer I have available

100 grs (by volume) of 1F or 2F  (A 20 gauge shell cut to the desired load makes for a cheap and easily replaceable dipper

Cardboard over powder card

Fiber Wad

1 oz of shot

Overshot card and some Elmer's Wood Glue to seal the overshot card in place

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1 hour ago, Chantry said:

 

Mec Brass hulls

Whatever Large Pistol Primer I have available

100 grs (by volume) of 1F or 2F  (A 20 gauge shell cut to the desired load makes for a cheap and easily replaceable dipper

Cardboard over powder card

Fiber Wad

1 oz of shot

Overshot card and some Elmer's Wood Glue to seal the overshot card in place

That's a LOT of powder!!! Bet you get a lot of boom!!!!

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19 minutes ago, Snakebite Dust SASS 75484 said:

That's a LOT of powder!!! Bet you get a lot of boom!!!!

I do, although I get even more from my 10 g load: 120 grns of 1F or 2F and 1 1/2 oz of shot  :D

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60 hrs FFG.        

1oz shot in a Claybuster CB1138-12 wad

Your hull of choice, brass or plastic.

Fold crimp until folds start to melt then roll crimp for the last time.

84grs FFG in night shoot loads

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21 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

About 20 years ago, the gold standard that a lot of folks used was 4.3cc of BP (approximately 60 grains), 1 oz of shot in a red wad, in a AA or STS hull.  I'm still using it except I'm using 1 1/8 oz of shot.   I will use Fg if I have it.  Last weekend at the Texas BP championship, several commented on the flame!

 

 

I may as well.

 

That's where I started out.  I'm not sure exactly when or why I dropped from 4.3 cc down to 4.0 cc of BP.  I went down to 1 oz. then 7/8 oz. shot when the price of shot started to skyrocket.  I've used FFFg, FFg and now I'm trying Reenactor BP for the shotgun because it's cheaper.  So far I really haven't noticed a difference between the three.  I also used up some old Pyrodex when I had it, just to use it up.  It worked fine also.  I've never had any Fg, but I'd use it if I did.

I'm pretty much a one and done guy with the BP shotshells.  Luckily I've got a bunch of empties.

 

9 hours ago, Chantry said:

 

Mec Brass hulls

Whatever Large Pistol Primer I have available

100 grs (by volume) of 1F or 2F  (A 20 gauge shell cut to the desired load makes for a cheap and easily replaceable dipper

Cardboard over powder card

Fiber Wad

1 oz of shot

Overshot card and some Elmer's Wood Glue to seal the overshot card in place

 

Holy smokes, Batman!  That's a lot of powder!  I don't know if I could even fit that in a plastic hull and still have room for a wad and shot.

I bet it looks pretty impressive when you light if off.  :D

 

Angus

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On 10/26/2021 at 1:22 PM, Rattlesnake Slim said:

Any BP/sub more than 35 grains by weight with 7/8 to 1 ounce of shot. BP and sub shotgun shells ain't picky, just about any hull and any wad that gives a good crimp will do. I've even reloaded some of the cheap 6 point crimp shells, they aren't pretty but stay closed long enough to go bang.

Yup. APP and SG both go through the Mec just fine...

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I load with plastic wads.  Very easy to load and the thin layer of melted plastic in barrels is easily removed.  I have a roll crimping tool but have never needed it.  For local matches I load once-fired Gun Clubs and toss them after one use.  I use any primer I have available.  Currently I use Rios I got cheaply a few years ago.  All the subs make satisfactory shotgun shells. APP will make thick clouds of white smoke.  Triple 7 can be used with reduced powder charges.  (I use Triple 7 for BP trap when I want stout loads.). Avoid Pyrodex!

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14 hours ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

 

That's where I started out.  I'm not sure exactly when or why I dropped from 4.3 cc down to 4.0 cc of BP.  I went down to 1 oz. then 7/8 oz. shot when the price of shot started to skyrocket.  I've used FFFg, FFg and now I'm trying Reenactor BP for the shotgun because it's cheaper.  So far I really haven't noticed a difference between the three.  I also used up some old Pyrodex when I had it, just to use it up.  It worked fine also.  I've never had any Fg, but I'd use it if I did.

I'm pretty much a one and done guy with the BP shotshells.  Luckily I've got a bunch of empties.

 

 

Holy smokes, Batman!  That's a lot of powder!  I don't know if I could even fit that in a plastic hull and still have room for a wad and shot.

I bet it looks pretty impressive when you light if off.  :D

 

Angus

The MEC hull is 2.5" and using a fiber over powder card & wad everything fits.  It should fit in a plastic hull if you use fiber instead of a plastic wad

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This is a cut & paste from CAS City a few years ago for real BP and Ballistic Products wads. Good Luck:)

Howdy Two-Bits,  I shoot a load similar to Noz wtih the Pink wad. Again as others have said the Win WAA 12R (CB 1138-12) is good for about 60-65gr and 1 1/8oz shot. I prefer to use a little less BP and have found several wads that fit all my needs. Besides the Win Pink wad there are several short shell wads from BPI that really work well.

 Short Shell #72SSW    1 1/8oz - 54-57gr ffg with BPI short wad #72SSW..........my favorite for big matches ;)

Helix #18    1oz - 48-50gr ffg with BPI Helix Driver #18.......another big match fav

WAA12SSL    7/8oz - 43-45gr ffg with Win Pink wad AA12SL (CB1100-12).......my local fav ;D

Helix #21    7/8oz - 45-47gr ffg with BPI Helix Driver #21......works good with the new two piece AA hulls


Jefro :D  Relax-Enjoy

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Ya know, I think it might be advantageous to state what one's goals are with regards to loads.

 

Otherwise you'll get the "Very Competitive" loads are the way to the "I don't care what my rounds do to your hearing or targets" loads.

 

Phantom

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On 10/27/2021 at 6:49 AM, Chantry said:

 

Mec Brass hulls

Whatever Large Pistol Primer I have available

100 grs (by volume) of 1F or 2F  (A 20 gauge shell cut to the desired load makes for a cheap and easily replaceable dipper

Cardboard over powder card

Fiber Wad

1 oz of shot

Overshot card and some Elmer's Wood Glue to seal the overshot card in place

While this might give you the giggles, I can assure you those around you are trying to protect what’s left of their eardrums. Unless you’re shooting out in the open without a structure that reflects the sound as many ranges do, you’re inflicting a lot of pain on those nearby. 

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Since 1987 I've loaded Winchester AA hulls with either 2F, 3F Goex, or their "Cartridge" powder.  Fed thru a MEC 600Jr using a #43 bushing and a 1 oz charge bar.  I used Winch 12R wads until they were no longer available, now I use a Claybuster CB-1138-12.  I've used both Winchester & Federal primers, no difference.  If you hit it, it falls... no muss, no fuss.

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A lot of great information on this post! I wish I would have had it earlier when I first started loading BP Shotshells.  Since shooting season is pretty much over, give me something to play with and make some adjustments to what I had been loading.

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