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More ideas for publicity and (maybe) growth


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36 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Just pointing out the current rules for SASS.  DO you really think the "cowboy" membership would accept people wearing sponsored logo shirts and equipment?

Throwing out non existent red herrings doesn't help either.

Not a SINGLE person said a word about logos - the poster said "Put some cowboy clothes on them"

You interjected the branding issue.

 

I have walked around MANY shoots and seen folks walking around and watching in NON cowboy gear - it didn't offend me in any manner.

I don't wish to see shooters mixed in with regular posses dressed in NASCAR level gear.

But if it brought publicity - free airtime - exposure on Rugers website/ Shooting USA/ Guns and Ammo television?

No, I don't think folks would have any problem with Team (Ruger, Uberti or Pietta, etc.) pros attacking our stages with their companies products.

Ruger team shooting Vaqueros, Marlins (and hopefully another SxS someday?)

Team Uberti with their pistols/ rifles and shotguns?

I would go watch.

 

 

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No, I don't think folks would have any problem with Team (Ruger, Uberti or Pietta, etc.) pros attacking our stages with their companies products.

Ruger team shooting Vaqueros, Marlins (and hopefully another SxS someday?)

That's a good idea Creeker. You should run that by the main office. Just an idea, but it could be held on side match day before EOT or National or Regional. Maybe have a three stage team shootout on berms they're not using that day. The stages could be left exactly like the main match but change the order so it doesn't add workload to volunteers other than painting the targets. Since it's your idea, you can expound from there.

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Sponsors would work if it gets some sort of media exposure outside of shoots. Otherwise you're advertising and promoting to existing members and a few people, not wearing SASS attire, attending the shoot.

We need to identify the market we're trying to recruit. Research what media they watch/listen/read and create a plan and budget to use that media.

Facebook, Instagram, Tik Toc cost nothing to post on. Just the labor and creativity to develop a page or post that will catch someones interest.

We get an average of 1 request a week for someone to join our page on FB. We have gotten a few members from this. Cost was $0.0.

SASS could put together a generic SASS social media post. Send it to all the clubs. Let them edit it to meet their local, times etc and post.

If we could fold in  some celebrity names or PIC's all the better.

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20 hours ago, Long Hunter SASS #20389L said:

That's a good idea Creeker. You should run that by the main office. Just an idea, but it could be held on side match day before EOT or National or Regional. Maybe have a three stage team shootout on berms they're not using that day. The stages could be left exactly like the main match but change the order so it doesn't add workload to volunteers other than painting the targets. Since it's your idea, you can expound from there.

I appreciate the kind words. 

But, I'm curious why NO ONE from our SASS leadership ever comments on these threads or personal messages.

I have offered many ideas that would benefit SASS at a national/ world level on these forums.

Crickets from anyone who has the pull, position or access to the checkbook to move on them.

 

And since I have a hard time believing NO ONE from the Board or SASS HQ watches these forums - I tend to think they don't care or are uninterested.

I fully cede all ownership of these ideas to SASS (and since I'm posting it on their forums - I believe they own it already).

 

I would, of course want to be involved in some manner if they moved forward - but just for the fun of seeing an idea come to fruition.

But even that is not the end all - be all.

I want my son, my daughter and her boyfriend to be able to play.

I want my grandsons to be able to play.

I really do want our game to outlive us.

 

I wish our leaders showed the same PUBLIC passion as our participants do.

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I haven't seen it in my own five years here.  Has SASS leadership ever querried their membership, or at least the TGs for marketing  ideas like the ones expressed here?  Have they ever surveyed the members or potential markets to determine what is liked, disliked, wanted or attractive?  Or are their marketing expenditure decisions driven entirely by profit margins and payrolls?  

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I've been reading this thread with interest for a while now and I really appreciate Creeker's passion to keep the game going.  But, I just don't see SASS HQ stepping in to help.  

 

Current and past SASS leadership have made multiple costly mistakes over the last few years and all the membership hears is "I'm sorry".  This move to Indiana was couched as "I fell in love with the area and decided to move there" while taking  SASS with her ensuring there was a job at the end of the rainbow.  

 

Whether the move to the new location is good or not for the organization, I'm not sure but there should have been a better reason than someone wanted to move.  The move to New Mexico sure didn't help the bottom line.

 

Could all that money lost on bad decisions have been used to advertise and promote the game?  Probably.

 

I would like to see SASS prosper but when the goal seems to be to guarantee a payroll, don't expect help from the main office.  

 

The first goal of the new board should be the retention of current members.  My 25 yr renewal is sitting on my desk and I am seriously considering not renewing it because management doesn't care about the membership other than my renewal $.

 

The local clubs and passionate members are what's keeping SASS going for now.  When they get tired, that will be the end of an era.  Sad because it was a fun pastime.

 

Maybe I'm one of those members SASS can be better off without according to CBB.  I guess time will tell.

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How about getting some Guntubers to a big match? They probably  have more reach to the target audience than hollywood celebrities.   Hickok45, Demolition Ranch, Forgotten Weapons,  etc...

They already have the guns, video equipment & skills, and shooting abilities. 

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8 minutes ago, Brimstone Bill Willson said:

How about getting some Guntubers to a big match? They probably  have more reach to the target audience than hollywood celebrities.   Hickok45, Demolition Ranch, Forgotten Weapons,  etc...

They already have the guns, video equipment & skills, and shooting abilities. 

Any publicity (well, nearly any) is good publicity. 

 

And the Guntubers would be fantastic to see at our matches - but I would really like to see our outreach toward a "target audience" other than old fat white guys (no offense intended - I is one myself).

 

Youth, people of color, casual shooters that have never competed before.

These are the groups that could actually create some excitement and significant growth within our ranks.

 

These folks will not be reached by Hickok45 or Matt from Demolition Ranch.

 

We reach these folks by showing their cultural influences attending our matches.

Singers, actors, sports stars, social media influencers are the "heros" of the folks we are looking for.

 

No different than every generation.

We gravitate toward those whom we wish to emulate.

 

A generation had to have coon skin hats because Davy Crockett was on their TV.

A generation had long hair and beads because the Rolling Stones did.

A generation wanted black Trans Ams because Burt Reynolds had one.

A generation wanted a Ferrari 308 because Magnum drove one.

 

Today is no different - just as those kids of the 50's and 60's had no interest in Boogie Woogie music or silent film stars.

 

Todays kids do not revere John Wayne or Randolph Scott.

And they aint buying the lunch box.

 

So we need to change our message, change our outreach and maybe let go of some prejudices that have kept our game geared for and targeted to old fat white guys.

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I was just recently talking about this with another cowboy.  My thoughts were what could be done to entice the younger crowd to come play our game.  His thoughts, and I agree, were that young people don't have the money to play.  When they are starting their careers and families they don't have the disposable income to purchase the items needed.  So it isn't until their kids are out of college and on their own that they can afford it.  Hence the large number of old fat white guys. 

I know this was the case for me.  I have known about SASS since the early 90's, was saving money to buy my first guns, was even working part time for one of the well known gun smiths at that time.  Life happened and my wife got pregnant.  Babies were born, divorces happened,  jobs changed and it was forgotten until I stumbled back onto it last year at age 55.  Now I have the money to play and am really enjoying it.  I didn't even know it still existed until I happened to be in a gun shop and overheard two guys talking about it. 

SASS definitely needs to figure out how to manage advertising and exposure.   I tell everyone I encounter that is a gun person about Cowboy Action Shooting and how much fun I am having.   Have even got a few to come try it out.  Hopefully they come back.

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17 hours ago, Brimstone Bill Willson said:

How about getting some Guntubers to a big match? They probably  have more reach to the target audience than hollywood celebrities.   Hickok45, Demolition Ranch, Forgotten Weapons,  etc...

They already have the guns, video equipment & skills, and shooting abilities. 

Just wanted to add that Hickok45 shot Cowboy years ago. He does bring it up once in a while during his videos. He has worldwide viewership. Maybe someone with the knowledge to do so, they could reach out to him, Also he is friends with Tucker Carlson and Tucker is very 2A.

Edited by Lowdown Larry
Wanted to add a sentence
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On 10/24/2021 at 1:41 AM, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Maybe I'm one of those members SASS can be better off without according to CBB.  I guess time will tell.

Jim, we often see eye to eye on things and your entire post is just another time that we totally agree. When I read that statement on CBB's post I just couldn't believe it. First off, it's a member's right to complain and it's managements responsibility to listen! Over the many years that I was closely involved I knew MANY complainers. They were the ones that shook things up and in most cases they were the ones that made things happen. They build the Game that the WB started and they made it work with the help of the Original WB. Over the past several years the Lions share of those complainers have faded away due to dying, retiring or being removed because they didn't agree. It was them that made the difference, NOT the "Yes men" that many of them have been replaced with. SASS owns the name Cowboy Action Shooting, we own the Game. As long as SASS supports and promotes the Game, I will support SASS and encourage everyone to support them. I don't have the answers, but I believe that the road ahead will be determined by the membership. At this point SASS exist totally to support us, not the other way around. When we get that straight you will see real progress. 

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On 10/22/2021 at 2:58 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Throwing out non existent red herrings doesn't help either.

Not a SINGLE person said a word about logos - the poster said "Put some cowboy clothes on them"

You interjected the branding issue.

 

I have walked around MANY shoots and seen folks walking around and watching in NON cowboy gear - it didn't offend me in any manner.

I don't wish to see shooters mixed in with regular posses dressed in NASCAR level gear.

But if it brought publicity - free airtime - exposure on Rugers website/ Shooting USA/ Guns and Ammo television?

No, I don't think folks would have any problem with Team (Ruger, Uberti or Pietta, etc.) pros attacking our stages with their companies products.

Ruger team shooting Vaqueros, Marlins (and hopefully another SxS someday?)

Team Uberti with their pistols/ rifles and shotguns?

I would go watch.

 

 

Creeker; In the early days I was one that opposed the Team concept in the game because I didn't want to see Professional Shooters mixed in and competing directly against our cast of amateurs that play this game. However... your idea has a good deal of merit. Without doubt it offers the possibility of some greatly needed National Exposure about our Game. I've watched a group of "Black Gun" shooters go from a small club to filling a 350+ shooter match in less than ONE HOUR! They did this in just two years, and I believe it is partly due to the High Exposure brought on by the "Team" shooters involve. We can no longer get a free Dillion donated as a prize at the Western Regional, yet these guys had 15 of them to give away and piles of guns! All this takes place on OUR Cowboy Range in Clovis, Ca. The Road Runner match. So, yes... I think that your idea has some merit. Like most things it would have to be ironed out, but it could be put forward with or without Devine acceptance. As long as the primary goal was to promote the game and not to simply make bags full of money it might be something that the industry would buy in to. They would have a minimum investment, little to loose, and something to gain if they could get the Game to grow. 

 

Snakebite

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19 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Youth, people of color, casual shooters that have never competed before.

These are the groups that could actually create some excitement and significant growth within our ranks.

 

These folks will not be reached by Hickok45 or Matt from Demolition Ranch.

 

We reach these folks by showing their cultural influences attending our matches.

Singers, actors, sports stars, social media influencers are the "heros" of the folks we are looking for.

 

No different than every generation.

We gravitate toward those whom we wish to emulate.

 

Creeker, I usually agree with your opinions and I am definitely open to some changes in our "game". I do know something needs to be done.

But I think we are barking up the wrong tree if we attempt to get "today's heroes" to attend our matches. First, most are all money hungry liberals that couldn't give a flip about what a bunch of "gun-toters" have to say and second, if Cardi B, Post Malone, The Weekend and Kim Kardashian show up at my match... I'm OUT!

I think you'd be hard-pressed to get any popular media icon interested in what we do. most want our guns taken away, not celebrated.

Sorry, just me.

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A member of the Wild Bunch once said, "This game dies when we do".

 

I always resented that person for that comment.

It was completely self serving, self centered and dismissive of the boundless possibilities of anything the future might bring.

It was not my style and has always grated on me.

 

But I am tired of tilting at windmills and fighting battles no one else seems to care about or even be aware of.

Y'all have fun.

 

I hope there will be someone there to shoot with you.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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I think ya got me wrong; I DO think we need to do somethings to get younger folks into CAS (I have brought two of my kids in; one still in), but imho, going after pop icons is a fool's errand. I don't think they would come and not sure anyone who values their opinion would have anything to do with us anyway. I'm all for getting the "word" out, just don't know exactly how best to do it.

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22 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

So we need to change our message, change our outreach and maybe let go of some prejudices that have kept our game geared for and targeted to old fat white guys.

Enlighten all of us how SASS, its management and rules along with the friendliest group of people in any sport have  in any way used prejudice to keep people out.

And how does it feel to have lumped all the fine people of SASS into being old and fat? Its comments like that that drive members away.

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5 hours ago, Snakebite said:

I've watched a group of "Black Gun" shooters go from a small club to filling a 350+ shooter match in less than ONE HOUR! They did this in just two years, and I believe it is partly due to the High Exposure brought on by the "Team" shooters involve.

What this confirms is the generations after the boomers are drawn to black rifles, not wearing silly costumes/hats and uncomfortable shoes, no gun carts. You can buy into the sport, rifle/pistol/shotgun for $1,800 the cost of a stock 73. They haven't watched westerns or know much about the western culture. They are John Wick/Fast and Furious, X Box, digital world participants. They haven't clue who John Wayne is.

And lastly, as I have said before, new members will come from local marketing in non-SASS shooting venues.

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14 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Enlighten all of us how SASS, its management and rules along with the friendliest group of people in any sport have  in any way used prejudice to keep people out.

And how does it feel to have lumped all the fine people of SASS into being old and fat? Its comments like that that drive members away.

Old and fat ought to be a category.  Lots of competition in that one.  

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I can't imagine why "SASS Management" isn't hanging on every Wire rant post … waiting to contribute … anxious to be responsive to the "people who pay their salary"!!

 

Of course … someone here must have invited them to this thread … (since it is so important). 

 

These threads unfortunately ... always seem to end the same way … "I'm through .. no one else cares … I'm done with all of you!! (until next time).

 

If anyone mentioned the SASS ad that shows up in my USPSA magazine (published every other month) I apologize for bringing it up again. (image below)

I think a lot of people pay their membership dues in USPSA (which includes steel challenge) to have rules and a classification record. They pay $40 a year or $25 w/o magazine (in case you have someone else in your household who get the magazine).  

 

Lots of folks who already shoot are over there .. (in IDPA too) … and they reload and do a lot of stuff that we do.

There are lots of vendors .. Equipment/guns (category specific in many cases) etc etc etc … 

I think if people want to shoot they will make it happen. 


Like the man says … "shoot … don't talk" …  walkdog.gif.96fe456ff7366f76e6371d3ed0e0245d.gif

 

1770171352_sassuspsa.jpg.9bc44495f2a70a8e978b0f13b136667e.jpg

 

Edited by Patagonia Pete
edit: fix photo ...
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No doubt

Just now, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

I stand on a corner with a sign reading "Old, fat and ugly.  Please help."  Pays better than Social Security.

Just don't start working my corner!

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4 hours ago, Patagonia Pete said:

I can't imagine why "SASS Management" isn't hanging on every Wire rant post … waiting to contribute … anxious to be responsive to the "people who pay their salary"!!

 

Of course … someone here must have invited them to this thread … (since it is so important). 

 

These threads unfortunately ... always seem to end the same way … "I'm through .. no one else cares … I'm done with all of you!! (until next time).

I cant imagine any company with real time access to their customers feedback ignoring it.

 

I operate more than one business currently and my customers ideas and input are important.

 

And I never said I was done with anyone - I'm simply done casting my pearls among swine.

 

Ill show up and shoot.

Comment on inane WTC threads.

Congratulate good match performances.

Offer sympathy for familial losses.

And I will likely continue to send in my yearly fees.

 

If for no other reason than to be here to say, I told you so.

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1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I cant imagine any company with real time access to their customers feedback ignoring it.

 

I operate more than one business currently and my customers ideas and input are important.

 

And I never said I was done with anyone - I'm simply done casting my pearls among swine.

 

Ill show up and shoot.

Comment on inane WTC threads.

Congratulate good match performances.

Offer sympathy for familial losses.

And I will likely continue to send in my yearly fees.

 

If for no other reason than to be here to say, I told you so.

IMO, Your ideas and thoughts are usually quite sound.  They deserve to be shared.  I hope you will continue to do so.  I'm getting censored now,  so I may not respond, but I will read what you have to contribute, as will many others here. 

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On 10/25/2021 at 3:38 PM, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

What this confirms is the generations after the boomers are drawn to black rifles, not wearing silly costumes/hats and uncomfortable shoes, no gun carts. You can buy into the sport, rifle/pistol/shotgun for $1,800 the cost of a stock 73. They haven't watched westerns or know much about the western culture. They are John Wick/Fast and Furious, X Box, digital world participants. They haven't clue who John Wayne is.

And lastly, as I have said before, new members will come from local marketing in non-SASS shooting venues.

If it is all about a generation familiar with movies with Old West themes, perhaps SASS should consider being the producer of more of those. There would be no shortage of extra actors who already have the props and costumes and safety disciplines. Just make sure blanks are actually blanks.

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On 10/23/2021 at 4:45 PM, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

...But, I'm curious why NO ONE from our SASS leadership ever comments on these threads or personal messages....

 

Because they are in the process of a major move from New Mexico to Indiana?

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30 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Because they are in the process of a major move from New Mexico to Indiana?

There's more to it than that.  They have time to lock and remove threads, censor comments, but not to answer emails. 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Because they are in the process of a major move from New Mexico to Indiana?

Priorities...

 

:wacko:

1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

There's more to it than that.  They have time to lock and remove threads, censor comments, but not to answer emails. 

Mods do that...not SASS.

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5 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

There's more to it than that.  They have time to lock and remove threads, censor comments, but not to answer emails. 

:lol: That's the Moderators,  NOT  the SASS Administration 

OLG 

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10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Priorities...

 

:wacko:

Mods do that...not SASS.

I'm not going to risk violating the guidelines, by going into specific details here (apparently any criticism of SASS actions or inactions can now be construed as misconduct, based on recent reading of the Guidelines).  

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1 minute ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

I'm not going to risk violating the guidelines, by going into specific details here (apparently any criticism of SASS actions or inactions can now be construed as misconduct, based on recent reading of the Guidelines).  

I don't agree.

 

SASS is pretty damn tolerant of voices of dissent here on the Wire. 

 

Phantom

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I don't agree.

 

SASS is pretty damn tolerant of voices of dissent here on the Wire. 

 

Phantom

No particular disagreement.  I have read a lot of dissent here in months past.  But the tolerance you refer to does seem to be substantially tightening lately.   The censored threads I referred to stated no disrespect toward any person.   However; a number of posters were critical of organizational decisions.   Only the moderators know why the material was removed.

 

Fresh reading of the Guidelines indicates that moderators may remove anything (or anyone),  based on their judgment, i.e., Posters really have no acknowledged right to speak freely, even if respectably.  That is certainly an important perspective for us to remember.  

 

Lots of folks (+-1,600) read the threads before they disappeared. 

Folks who read the threads can certainly pass their own judgment.   I'm sure they are doing that.   

 

Let's just let it rest now.   No resolution is likely,  IMO.    

 

 

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