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1901 winchester questions.....new info added


Throckmorton,23149
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I have a very early 1901,shoot it now and then ,curious why they made the finger lever 2 piece ?

wiki intimates that it and the lever safety have something to do with each other, Not that I can tell unless it's after the safety 'button' goes into it's hole in the lever,and magic occurs in there ?

f..AHA,further examination reveals that the tip of the safety is broken off. mystery solved. 

 

the shells i have are roll crimped, Western Expert, and on the side is 4 1/4-, 1 1/4-6.the last two I get..the 1st number is actual drams or dram equivelent ? IE:  smokeless shells. ?

I fired a few last year and got the strong impression they are black powder shells, look to be factory rounds.

again...AHA. watcching videos of it being shot I have to go with smokeless shells. 

   thanks Pards   and no I don't shoot it at matches altho our local group would allow it. 

 

 

Edited by Throckmorton,23149
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  • Throckmorton,23149 changed the title to 1901 winchester questions.....new info added

    The 2 piece lever was added to keep the lever up and closed until the shooter wanted to open it. The 1 piece 87 lever can pop open once the gun has some wear on it and the action gets a little loose.  The safety on an 87 is what looks like a fishhook barb on the back side at the bottom of the trigger. That goes into a small hole when the lever is closed. A properly tuned 87 will not fire until the lever is completely closed. ( Talking about real 87s and the Chiappa and Cimarron copies not the IAC or CAI copies.)

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8 minutes ago, LASSITER#2080 said:

Hi Warden,

    I doubt it. The 87 & 01 have different size frames.

 

The 1887 10 gauge frame is also bigger than the 1887 12 gauge.

 

12 gauge above 10 gauge. 

 

253730146_188710and12Oct2021.jpg.884c7b1f0c6d8d3443b902ccd0ba5a94.jpg

Edited by Warden Callaway
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5 hours ago, Throckmorton,23149 said:

I have a very early 1901,shoot it now and then ,curious why they made the finger lever 2 piece ?

wiki intimates that it and the lever safety have something to do with each other, Not that I can tell unless it's after the safety 'button' goes into it's hole in the lever,and magic occurs in there ?

f..AHA,further examination reveals that the tip of the safety is broken off. mystery solved. 

 

the shells i have are roll crimped, Western Expert, and on the side is 4 1/4-, 1 1/4-6.the last two I get..the 1st number is actual drams or dram equivelent ? IE:  smokeless shells. ?

I fired a few last year and got the strong impression they are black powder shells, look to be factory rounds.

again...AHA. watcching videos of it being shot I have to go with smokeless shells. 

 

   thanks Pards   and no I don't shoot it at matches altho our local group would allow it. 

 

 


The 1901 is perfectly legal for SASS competition!

 

 I try to shoot mine in a match every year or two!

 

 

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16 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:


The 1901 is perfectly legal for SASS competition!

 

 I try to shoot mine in a match every year or two!

 

 

I guess it is time to load it up and to a match...EOT might be a good time for a big boom...

 

Texas Lizard

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from the shooter's handbook....I:M sure local clubs <can> allow the 1901 but as I read the rules, and at bigger /regional/ matches they would/should not be allowed. No ?
 

Quote

shotgun Requirements Any side-by-side or single shot shotgun typical of the period from approximately 1860 until 1899

 

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11 hours ago, Throckmorton,23149 said:

from the shooter's handbook....I:M sure local clubs <can> allow the 1901 but as I read the rules, and at bigger /regional/ matches they would/should not be allowed. No ?
 

 

 

Just spit ballin’ but since the 1901 looks identical to an 1887 other than the gauge I don’t think anyone would have a problem with it.  Plus who doesn’t like a big boom with lots of smoke :ph34r:

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14 hours ago, Throckmorton,23149 said:

from the shooter's handbook....I:M sure local clubs <can> allow the 1901 but as I read the rules, and at bigger /regional/ matches they would/should not be allowed. No ?
 

 

I would opine the 1901 is a Winchester made replica of the 1887 and is "typical" of the firearms made within the approved time period.

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The 1901 run of '87 levers was the last ones made.

They were only made in 10ga.

The only series of '87's approved by Winchester for smokeless powder. 

Note, like 12 ga. the 10ga chambering is shorter than today's ammo.

OLG 

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Very cool Shotgun!  I have had a couple of them, and used to shoot one at monthly matches.  Sadly both got away from me in a weak moment.  Still got a full box of Winchester shells marked for the 1901.

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4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

What is the chamber length for the 1901?


The 1901 is chambered 2 7/8” for brass or roll crimped shells. I have shot some folded crimp shells in mine without problems, but some folks say not to.

 

Again! The 1901 is totally legal in SASS competition!

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3 hours ago, Grizzly Adams 3674 said:

Very cool Shotgun!  I have had a couple of them, and used to shoot one at monthly matches.  Sadly both got away from me in a weak moment.  Still got a full box of Winchester shells marked for the 1901.

Need another one or get rid of shells...

 

Texas Lizard

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1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Did these guns have Damascus barrels?

 

I did not document the source but from my collection of information on 1887's:

  • "Damascus 3 blade & 4 blade barrels were furnished as a special at extra charge."
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11 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

All 1901's had fluid steel barrels.

 

The 1887s may/may not have Damascus barrels.  

 

I know my 87 does not have Damascus.   I asked because I saw a 1901 advertised and the listing said it had a Damascus barrel.   I immediately wondered if the poster was confused about something because I know the 01's were designed for smokeless, and we've all had it drilled into us that Damascus barrels are for black powder only.   

I have decided that, sooner or later, I'm gonna get an 01.  Just trying to decide how to feed it.   I may get some RMC 10 gauge brass.   Expensive, but compared to the cost of the gun, not very much so.

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4 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

I know my 87 does not have Damascus.   I asked because I saw a 1901 advertised and the listing said it had a Damascus barrel.   I immediately wondered if the poster was confused about something because I know the 01's were designed for smokeless, and we've all had it drilled into us that Damascus barrels are for black powder only.   

I have decided that, sooner or later, I'm gonna get an 01.  Just trying to decide how to feed it.   I may get some RMC 10 gauge brass.   Expensive, but compared to the cost of the gun, not very much so.

 

I’ve got an ‘87 and tried using my brass 12 ga in it and it was iffy at best.  The leading edge of the brass shell is sharp and tends to hang up, now if you could roll that edge over just a little then I don’t think you’d have a problem.  I’m still not giving up on the brass shells in the ‘87, I’ve got a few more things to try first. 

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9 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

I’ve got an ‘87 and tried using my brass 12 ga in it and it was iffy at best.  The leading edge of the brass shell is sharp and tends to hang up, now if you could roll that edge over just a little then I don’t think you’d have a problem.  I’m still not giving up on the brass shells in the ‘87, I’ve got a few more things to try first. 

The Magtech brass shells work in it quite well.   Those you can put a small taper crimp on.

I did lengthen the chamber and forcing cone in my 87.    A couple of well respected cowboy gunsmiths told me "offically" they recommend against it, but know of shooters who have run "thousands" of rounds through guns so modified.  I don't think I would do it myself.  (That's what the reproductions are for.)  Aside from that, I have trimmed a buncha AA's back to 2-1/2" for use in a few other old guns I have with short chambers.  There's nothing left to fold over, but just enough to give a slight "roll crimp" to hold the overshot card in place.   

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7 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

The Magtech brass shells work in it quite well.   Those you can put a small taper crimp on.

I did lengthen the chamber and forcing cone in my 87.    A couple of well respected cowboy gunsmiths told me "offically" they recommend against it, but know of shooters who have run "thousands" of rounds through guns so modified.  I don't think I would do it myself.  (That's what the reproductions are for.)  Aside from that, I have trimmed a buncha AA's back to 2-1/2" for use in a few other old guns I have with short chambers.  There's nothing left to fold over, but just enough to give a slight "roll crimp" to hold the overshot card in place.   

 

I apologize I should’ve said that I’m using a reproduction with a drop 2 modification. I’ve had great luck using plastic hulls with a roll crimp, they feed well every-time. 

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Assemble your Magtech shells with the CH4D dies and you can perform the roll crimp just like original factory brass shells.  Not sure about the RCBS dies. I have a set, but I’ve never used them!

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17 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

I’ve got an ‘87 and tried using my brass 12 ga in it and it was iffy at best.  The leading edge of the brass shell is sharp and tends to hang up, now if you could roll that edge over just a little then I don’t think you’d have a problem.  I’m still not giving up on the brass shells in the ‘87, I’ve got a few more things to try first. 

I use a slight roll on the brass shells.  Not a full roll , just enough to where it can start to be noticed.  With BP loads it has stayed in place.

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On 10/21/2021 at 7:39 AM, Blackwater 53393 said:

Assemble your Magtech shells with the CH4D dies and you can perform the roll crimp just like original factory brass shells.  Not sure about the RCBS dies. I have a set, but I’ve never used them!

 

I don’t know how you got the CH4D dies to work, when I tried the roll crimp die it wouldn’t crimp the shorter shell.  When I use it on a longer shell it works fine but with the shorter shell for the ‘87 the die just doesn’t go down far enough.  The only thing that I came up with was to cut the die about ½ inch, haven’t done it (yet) but that’s the only thing I can think of to do. 

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20 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

I don’t know how you got the CH4D dies to work, when I tried the roll crimp die it wouldn’t crimp the shorter shell.  When I use it on a longer shell it works fine but with the shorter shell for the ‘87 the die just doesn’t go down far enough.  The only thing that I came up with was to cut the die about ½ inch, haven’t done it (yet) but that’s the only thing I can think of to do. 


I got my CH4D dies second hand. They had already been modified, but I’d have done it myself if they hadn’t.

 

When my rich uncle gets out of the poor house, I plan to buy a set of CH4Ds for my 10ga brass shells too.

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