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Any problem having projectiles (.38 case) this far out?


Buckshot Bear
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Any problem having projectiles (.38 case) this far out and crimped into the bottom groove (which would be the lube groove).

 

The Rossi I bought as a club gun won't feed rounds that work smoothly in my Uberti.

 

(The long ones in the pics aren't crimped)

 

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20211014_153012_resized.thumb.jpg.3f19c446545ad83b4086f4d431e7f76d.jpg

 

 

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No issue whatsoever.

I always load my 105 gr. bullets in the lube groove.

I feel (strictly my opinion) like my 73 cycles better with the longer length 

Make sure you have a good crimp and load away.

 

I also load a few at shorter length for thru the top reloads.

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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As long as there's enough bullet inside the case to prevent it from tipping (getting cock-eyed) it'll be fine, assuming you have a good powder charge under it.

 

Looks like that piece of nickel brass has a split in the neck (crimp).  I'd be more worried about that.

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I have to load mine at 1.530” for my Interarms Rossi. That is usually right at the top of the lube groove. Only issue with this is that the crimp doesn’t hold a lot of pressure on the bullet, so most powders will give a dirty burn resulting in sooty cases. No problem with setback as long as the crimp tucks into the lube groove a tad. 
 

Chootem,
 

Sam Sackett 

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20 minutes ago, Chief Rick said:

As long as there's enough bullet inside the case to prevent it from tipping (getting cock-eyed) it'll be fine, assuming you have a good powder charge under it.

 

Looks like that piece of nickel brass has a split in the neck (crimp).  I'd be more worried about that.

 

The nickel case is a junker I'm using to play with OAL. 

 

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Shooting a nose heavy bullet in the Rossi is usually a good choice. I always had good luck with my bullet, but any bullet that has a weight forward presentation will helps to prevent the Stove Pipping that can frequently occur with the Rossi 92. 

 

Snakebite

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If your cartridges are too short, you'll know it quickly, because the tip of the bullet of a second round will be able to fit far enough into the carrier ramp to prevent the carrier rising, thus jambing the action. 

 

If the bullets are extended out too far, you run the risk of them falling out in the magazine or the carrier during recoil.  If that happens, your shooting string ends abruptly.  So my rule of thumb has always been:  if you extend bullets out to where less than half a case diameter of lead is still within the case, be very sure to get a solid crimp.  Test some by trying to wriggle the bullet out with your hands.  If they are less than solid-secure, you may need to load them in .357 cases.

JMHO. 

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I have a Rossi .45 that loads 180- 230 gr. bullets just fine, but I find my smaller caliber Rossi is more finicky. I just made some dummies for my .38/.357 that are between 1.48 and 1.5" and they all cycled fine. I still need to shoot them in a match to see how 60 rounds will do. I may order .38 bullets next time without the crimp groove since I have 4 guns that like them longer than the typical crimp groove.

With inconsistent supplies, I haven't been able to find and stick with one brand and weight bullet which tends to complicate things a mite. Also, the wife has told me she likes a bullet and then changes her mind after I've purchased several thousand or loaded to an approved length. <_<

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If you can get a copy of Nate Kiowa Jones' video on tuning a Rossi you can get it to feed cartridges a lot better. There are some modifications to the LH cartridge guide that will stop it from stove piping or ejecting live rounds.

 

All 4 of my Rossi 92s feed 38 specials loaded with a 125 grain loaded to an OAL of 1.510" reliably. They will also feed 137 to 158 grain RNFP in .357 cases loaded to 1.55" - 1.61" OAL 

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I prefer a crimp into the BAND just above that lube groove, as it holds the bullet more securely and allows tight crimps.  A soft alloy for the bullet assists with turning the mouth into the band without bulging out the case just below the crimp. 

 

But, some bullets just are not designed with the crimp groove where you want them.  Molds I have designed intentionally omit a crimp groove, so that I can make the cartridge length what I want more easily.  And since I keep hardness down to about 8 or 9 Brinnell to prevent leading and keep cost low, making a slug that soft and that flexible in it's crimp location is under my control.

 

good luck, GJ

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49 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

If you can get a copy of Nate Kiowa Jones' video on tuning a Rossi you can get it to feed cartridges a lot better. There are some modifications to the LH cartridge guide that will stop it from stove piping or ejecting live rounds.

 

All 4 of my Rossi 92s feed 38 specials loaded with a 125 grain loaded to an OAL of 1.510" reliably. They will also feed 137 to 158 grain RNFP in .357 cases loaded to 1.55" - 1.61" OAL 

 

G'day SD,

I bought (club funds) the Rossi (and two Pietta pistols) as club guns for club members (and people interested in joining) to be able to use once or twice (or hire long term if they don't want to buy CAS gear, we shoot multiple disciplines at our shooting complex). The club president and myself (I'm the club secretary) will be doing the reloading for these guns.

 

I've done some searching for Nate Kiowa Jones' video, but alas come up empty handed so far.

 

Sorry to ask mate, but is there any chance you can post a photo of the 125gr pill you use and a photo of a loaded round?

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12 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said:

 

G'day SD,

I bought (club funds) the Rossi (and two Pietta pistols) as club guns for club members (and people interested in joining) to be able to use once or twice (or hire long term if they don't want to buy CAS gear, we shoot multiple disciplines at our shooting complex). The club president and myself (I'm the club secretary) will be doing the reloading for these guns.

 

I've done some searching for Nate Kiowa Jones' video, but alas come up empty handed so far.

 

Sorry to ask mate, but is there any chance you can post a photo of the 125gr pill you use and a photo of a loaded round?

 

I'll get pics up tomorrow

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9 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said:

 

Thanks, sorry to make you go to the trouble.....appreciated. 

No trouble at all.

 

I'd do it tonight but I am already in my bed clothes and my reloading room isn't attached to the house

 

SD

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

No trouble at all.

 

I'd do it tonight but I am already in my bed clothes and my reloading room isn't attached to the house

 

SD

 

Really appreciated SD, thanks mate.

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IMG_0116.thumb.JPG.c369312b7aec67a5c16c8e58bc4b4bc4.JPG

 

Left to right 

140 gr .357, OAL = 1.555", 39.5 mm

125 gr 38 Spcl, OAL  = 1.519", 38.58 mm

158 gr 38 special, OAL = 1.508", 38.30 mm

125 gr Hy-Tek OAL = 0.556", 14.12 mm

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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None .

That's the way I have been loading my 44 Specials for Years now .

The cycle good in my Rossi 92 and my Ruger 44 special pistols .

But Not in my 66.

So Saith The Rooster

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17 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

IMG_0116.thumb.JPG.c369312b7aec67a5c16c8e58bc4b4bc4.JPG

 

Left to right 

140 gr .357, OAL = 1.555", 39.5 mm

125 gr 38 Spcl, OAL  = 1.519", 38.58 mm

158 gr 38 special, OAL = 1.508", 38.30 mm

125 gr Hy-Tek OAL = 0.556", 14.12 mm

 

@Sedalia Dave Thanks so much for going to that trouble mate.....super appreciated thank you!!!!

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You are most Welcome, Slippery is a great Pard. Free shipping on 1K or more and get put in for a drawing for a outfitted XL750

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I had the exact same question when I started reloading for my .38/.357 1873.  I wanted to load at the max OAL for the .38 to avoid feeding issues. I am using Chey-Cast HI-TEK SUPERCOAT 38cal TCFP 125gr bullets, which looks to be the exact same profile as your Slippery .38 bullets.  My crimps are also in the lube groove, so I called Hank over at Chey-Cast to see if, as the manufacturer, he had any concerns in doing this, and his reply was "None whatsoever".  My crimps are so tight, I have a heck of a time getting them out with a impact bullet puller. Haven't had a single feed or FTF issue in my  my Uberti 1773 due to the crimp placement in the lube groove.

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On 10/14/2021 at 8:41 PM, Buckshot Bear said:

 

G'day SD,

I bought (club funds) the Rossi (and two Pietta pistols) as club guns for club members (and people interested in joining) to be able to use once or twice (or hire long term if they don't want to buy CAS gear, we shoot multiple disciplines at our shooting complex). The club president and myself (I'm the club secretary) will be doing the reloading for these guns.

 

I've done some searching for Nate Kiowa Jones' video, but alas come up empty handed so far.

 

Sorry to ask mate, but is there any chance you can post a photo of the 125gr pill you use and a photo of a loaded round?

 

BB, here is a photo and text copied from a post the man himself, Nate KJ, posted 10-12 years ago on this forum. (I kept this for my own archives.)

 

Nate does business as Steve's Gunz (https://stevesgunz.com). Here's a link that will give you several "hits" on the topic.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=steve's+gunz+rossi+92+video&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

GyQyO8X.jpg

 

"As some of you know, I specialize in these CAS leverguns and have been for the last 18 years. Here are some things that I have found.
As for the feeding problem with these rifles, all our leverguns are length and bullet shape sensitive to some degree. Like semi-auto handguns, they can be picky about what they will run and the faster we try to go with them the more often these problems tend to show up. I think one of the reasons folks like the 66&73's is they are less ammo sensitive than the others. Someone mentioned that these 38-357 guns are designed to shoot the 357mags and they do better with the longer 357m rounds. That`s just not the case. What Rossi, Marlin and Winchester have done with these 38/357 guns and to some degree the 44sp/44m guns is compromise the timing to handle both lengths. This compromise is like a combo tool compared to a tool that is designed to do one specific job. The combo tool will never do as good of a job as the tool that is designed specifically for the job. That is one of the reasons marlin came out with their cowboy comp. in 38 only. 
It's not just an OAL issue. It's an OAL and bullet shape issue. The very best feeding cals are the bottleneck cals these guns were originally chambered for. You have a little bullet going into a big hole funneling down. Make ammo that replicates this as much as possible. An elongated style flatpoint bullet without any external driving bands in a 38 case works best and that is because it is much easier to lengthen 38`s as compared to shortening 357`s.


When making these long 38`s keep in mind, just because a lead bullet has a crimp groove, that doesn't mean you have to use it. You can seat the bullet out long and crimp right into the side of the lead. A good place to start is to seat a RNFP bullet out to about 1.5 OAL or slightly longer. 
Here is a good example of a lead bullet set out beyond the crimp groove in a 38 spec case.

The other thing to consider is no two guns are alike. When the parts for the guns are made, the maker has a nominal size for each and ever parts that goes into the gun. But they will accept a part that is plus or minus a few thousands. Once all these various parts are assemble every gun will be slightly different. This is called stackup.
I have had consecutive serial numbered gun here. One would run even on empty brass, the other would not run on anything without some tweeking. If you have tried different styles of ammo the gun may need some timing work to run right."

 

--Nate Kiowa Jones

 

Edited by Abilene Slim SASS 81783
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1 hour ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

 

BB, here is a photo and text copied from a post the man himself, Nate KJ, posted 10-12 years ago on this forum. (I kept this for my own archives.)

 

Nate does business as Steve's Gunz (https://stevesgunz.com). Here's a link that will give you several "hits" on the topic.

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=steve's+gunz+rossi+92+video&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

GyQyO8X.jpg

 

"As some of you know, I specialize in these CAS leverguns and have been for the last 18 years. Here are some things that I have found.
As for the feeding problem with these rifles, all our leverguns are length and bullet shape sensitive to some degree. Like semi-auto handguns, they can be picky about what they will run and the faster we try to go with them the more often these problems tend to show up. I think one of the reasons folks like the 66&73's is they are less ammo sensitive than the others. Someone mentioned that these 38-357 guns are designed to shoot the 357mags and they do better with the longer 357m rounds. That`s just not the case. What Rossi, Marlin and Winchester have done with these 38/357 guns and to some degree the 44sp/44m guns is compromise the timing to handle both lengths. This compromise is like a combo tool compared to a tool that is designed to do one specific job. The combo tool will never do as good of a job as the tool that is designed specifically for the job. That is one of the reasons marlin came out with their cowboy comp. in 38 only. 
It's not just an OAL issue. It's an OAL and bullet shape issue. The very best feeding cals are the bottleneck cals these guns were originally chambered for. You have a little bullet going into a big hole funneling down. Make ammo that replicates this as much as possible. An elongated style flatpoint bullet without any external driving bands in a 38 case works best and that is because it is much easier to lengthen 38`s as compared to shortening 357`s.


When making these long 38`s keep in mind, just because a lead bullet has a crimp groove, that doesn't mean you have to use it. You can seat the bullet out long and crimp right into the side of the lead. A good place to start is to seat a RNFP bullet out to about 1.5 OAL or slightly longer. 
Here is a good example of a lead bullet set out beyond the crimp groove in a 38 spec case.

The other thing to consider is no two guns are alike. When the parts for the guns are made, the maker has a nominal size for each and ever parts that goes into the gun. But they will accept a part that is plus or minus a few thousands. Once all these various parts are assemble every gun will be slightly different. This is called stackup.
I have had consecutive serial numbered gun here. One would run even on empty brass, the other would not run on anything without some tweeking. If you have tried different styles of ammo the gun may need some timing work to run right."

 

--Nate Kiowa Jones

 

 

Brilliant stuff.... thank you Abilene Slim !!!! 

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