Savvy Jack Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 During the Archeological surveys over the years at the battle site, numerous Frankford Arinsal 45 Colt cases were recovered. Interestingly enough, many were the longer cases that were supposedly phased out by the end of 1873. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Phased out at the manufacturer, or phased out at Army HQ doesn't mean there still aren't bucket loads of the ammo still at various forts and armories. At least that would be my first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 My second thought is always either "Time Travel" or "Aliens"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 Just because the Army phased them out doesn't mean the Indians did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted October 12, 2021 Author Share Posted October 12, 2021 Seriously...that's the best ya got? C'mon guys, put those thinking caps on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 You're talking about what the an arsenal on the East Coast did one year and what was found at the brown and smelly of the supply chain the summer of the next year. They shot what they were issued. Changes that far a remove from the actual shooters is going to take a while to trickle down even today. At a max of 18 months, it would be hard pressed to reach the front line units today unless there was a concerted effort to fast track such a change through the supply system. In 1876? It would have taken years- and they had already been in the field for quite a while by that fateful day in June. It's also not like they practiced live fire a whole lot. The Army was frugal to the point of stupidity when it came to ammo consumption back then (that was one of the major arguments that kept the US from adopting a repeating long arm until the 1890's). The training allotment was ridiculously low, so it's not like the new ammo would quickly work through the supply chain just from routine usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted October 13, 2021 Author Share Posted October 13, 2021 20 minutes ago, Smuteye John SASS#24774 said: You're talking about what the an arsenal on the East Coast did one year and what was found at the brown and smelly of the supply chain the summer of the next year. They shot what they were issued. Changes that far a remove from the actual shooters is going to take a while to trickle down even today. At a max of 18 months, it would be hard pressed to reach the front line units today unless there was a concerted effort to fast track such a change through the supply system. In 1876? It would have taken years- and they had already been in the field for quite a while by that fateful day in June. It's also not like they practiced live fire a whole lot. The Army was frugal to the point of stupidity when it came to ammo consumption back then (that was one of the major arguments that kept the US from adopting a repeating long arm until the 1890's). The training allotment was ridiculously low, so it's not like the new ammo would quickly work through the supply chain just from routine usage. Good reply, This leads me to think exactly just how much "surplus" did they have for an ammunition that was supposedly "obsolete" as soon as it came out. Lets look at the timeline and see if it helps. 45 Colt SAA Order Contract Signed July 23rd, 1873 By Oct 1873, the 45 Colt was loaded with only 30gr of BP with the 250gr bullet...before anyone (6th and 10th Cav Units) were issued their Colts (by Nov 28, 1873). First 8,000 ordered, shipped to Springfield, Mass, received in Lots of 1,000. sn#'s 200 to 1,222 received Nov 28, 1873, sn#s 1,224 to 2.336 received Dec 19th, 1873 The 7th received sn#'s 4,516 to 5,521 Jan 31st, 1874, of which only 755 were issued. Thru August 1874, the 45 Colt ammunition was loaded with the 250gr lead with 30gr of powder. Winchester's 1875 catalog shows the 45 Colt with a centerfire case.....not found at TLBH that I know of...this rules out civilian purchase or theft of civilian ammunition by the Warriors. By 1875, Colt/Schofield 28gr of powder with a 230gr lead bullet. The battle took place June 26, 1876 Did Custer's 7th have any Schofield revolvers? It would seem stupid to mix the two cartridges during battle. So between August 1874 and July 1876, it looks like the 45 Colt cartridge was still widely used and in great supply during TBTLBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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