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The 1860 Henry


Alamosa Bill
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50 minutes ago, Alamosa Bill said:

I have just watched the western “Incident at Phantom Hill” in it all the actors had Henry’s but they had side loading gates. Were any made like this or could they be just a movie prop?

 

Bill:

 

There were a limited number of so-called "transitional" model Henrys made, featuring a loading gate.  They are uncommon, and probably more valuable than would be used as a prop.  In all likelihood, you saw "Hollywood Henrys", which were 1873s (which have loading gates) with the forearms removed.  

 

LL

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Posted (edited)

I’m sure you are right, though more likely 66’s as they were brass framed. It’s maddening since I have a Henry I always look for the follower in films or the Henry Hop, usually they’re always empty and still firing away haha. I’m in the Uk and have a 66 a 73, Henry and  Sharps, Uberti’s and Pedersoli, I would love to get an original Winchester at some point. Cheers LL.

Edited by Alamosa Bill
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One of the two “Henrys” in Silverado is a 66 with the forend removed.

 

If you watch most b westerns carefully, you’ll spot Hollywood Henrys that are 92 and 94 guns with fake gold receivers.

 

Edited by WOLFY
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On 10/11/2021 at 8:09 PM, WOLFY said:

One of the two “Henrys” in Silverado is a 66 with the forend removed.

 

If you watch most b westerns carefully, you’ll spot Hollywood Henrys that are 92 and 94 guns with fake gold receivers.

 

I believe they were a Henry and a 66 as you say with the forearm taken off to match his Fathers. I am always looking at a 92 with a 24” octagon barrel to make it a Hollywood Henry as seen in the Commancheros movie. One day I will buy a Rossi and send it Steve the 92 wizard to have him plate the receiver, lever and butt cap. 

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On 10/5/2021 at 12:46 AM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

There were a limited number of so-called "transitional" model Henrys made, featuring a loading gate.  They are uncommon, and probably more valuable than would be used as a prop.

 

Lassy's link says (without mentioning a source) that only 4 such rifles were made, none of them was preserved, and reproductions were based on drawings.

 

Equanimous

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6 hours ago, Lassy LaRock said:

Two of my good pards have them CoffinMaker and Prairie Dawg! I think Coffinmaker modified  the Henry's for them.

 

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Historically speaking, there were Seven known versions of the Henry Transitional made by Winchester.  ALL seven still exist in private collections.  At one time, all seven were pictured on the "Rare Winchesters" site, however the owners have since taken the pictures down.

 

The Rifle shown by Hege in Germany is a Uberti built gun.  Approximately 260 were imported by Taylors & Co.  The loading gate shown is based on the original "Kings Patent" loading gate which later became the "Ladle" we know today.

 

I also built several replicas for myself and Prairie Dawg.  Super Fun!! 

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
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How about this one.

 

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Winchester M-1860 Henry Rifle with honest frontier alteration. This wonderful gun shows traces of blue in barrel flute, crisp Henry bump on butt stock, crisp markings for barrel address and serial number, matching serial numbers with butt stock. Never buffed, sanded or other lame attempts to improve. The gun has had the muzzle period shortened and magazine tube plugged with a lead ball. This is no hack job, a gun smith cut off the barrel, crowned the muzzle and plugged the magazine tube, then they cut a notch in the base of the magazine tube and installed a metal sleeve over the notch and the barrel that slides, so the gun can be loaded from the breech end of the barrel. I have never seen this type of alteration on a Henry before, and frankly it is an improvement over the original rifle system. Had Winchester thought of it, he would have greatly increased his sales of these guns a carbines during the Civil War. This gun is really neat and when you all you find is filed, buffed, sanded, sawed, rasped, colored, dyed, restocked, wrenched on, and screw with Henry\'s under 20,000, dollars this gun is a breath of fresh air. A really neat gun that came out of Oklahoma and has been in the same family since the 1800\'s and has always been altered. Very good as configured. 19 3/8 inch barrel.

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14 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Some Rossi's came with brass receivers.  These are solid brass, not plated.

 

 

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Yes they did, but not any more unfortunately according to the catalog and a call to customer service, I missed it, so now I will have to buy and plate.

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3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I love how Danny Glover makes it a point to talk about his Henry rifle in Silverado, but when you look at it, it's clearly a 66 with the forestock removed.

Until I saw that movie in 1984, I had never heard of a Henry. Until I started CAS in 2008, I didn’t know how a Henry was different from all the other lever action guns shown in movies. 

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On 10/15/2021 at 5:20 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I love how Danny Glover makes it a point to talk about his Henry rifle in Silverado, but when you look at it, it's clearly a 66 with the forestock removed.

 

If history is consistent, no one called the 60 & 66 by their years (when they were new).  They were Henrys.  The “Improved Henry” being the later model, was still called a Henry.   

 

Edited by WOLFY
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The vast majority of "Henry" Rifle in the movies were Model 92 Winchesters with the Fore end removed. I remember in the early 1990s when the movie studios sold off a pile of them, along with a lot Trapdoor Rifles that had been cut down to resemble Carbines and a few Rolling Blocks. Some outfit out of Las Vegas was handling the deal. 

 

Snakebite

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On 10/17/2021 at 3:58 AM, WOLFY said:

 

If history is consistent, no one called the 60 & 66 by their years (when they were new).  They were Henrys.  The “Improved Henry” being the later model, was still called a Henry.   

 

I'm guessing that after they came out with the '66, the two were called the Henry and the Winchester.  

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1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

OK, so what is this one?

 

 

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Don't try to be a Smarty. Anyone with a little knowledge of gun history can recognize that as a 1868 LaGoose. Not many of them made.

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On 10/15/2021 at 10:18 AM, Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 said:

Lots of fake Henry's in movies and tv.  forget where I saw this, but I was laughing when I snapped a picture of the tv screen.

 

sure looks like that not so rare model 92 Henry to me.

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Interesting pistol too! Looks like one a them 58/75 Remington models... uh, pre-production, of course. ;)

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I remember the TV show "Paradise" in the 90's starting Lee Horsley as Ethen Allen Cord.  He carried a Colt SAA and his hideout was a Remington 75.   But his rifle was clearly a 66 with the forestock removed.   They never called it Henry or a Winchester, it was just the rifle he had.   But I do recall in one episode he had a box of cartridges clearly marked ".44-40" on the table.

Go fig.

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Just curious, did early hollywood westerns use any 44 Henrys with blanks?

Most rifles used the 5 in 1 blanks which would be 73's, or 92's with the forearm removed.

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4 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

OK, so what is this one?

 

 

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What is that?  Clearly a 73 receiver.  Is that a Henry transitional barrel assembly and forearm?  What is the brass I can see between the receiver and barrel assembly?

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27 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said:

Just curious, did early hollywood westerns use any 44 Henrys with blanks?

Most rifles used the 5 in 1 blanks which would be 73's, or 92's with the forearm removed.

Probably depends of how early.  The teens and twentys maybe.  Henrys weren't that valuable back then and the factories still loaded ammo.  The old west rimfires were all pretty much discontinued by the mid-1930s.  The .44 Henry being rimfire could not, as a practical matter, be reloaded and the ammo was gone by the forties.

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:o  Larsen E.  :P

 

I just gotta know.  Who built that '73/Henry??  Just gotta know.  There were several occasions when I was working really hard to re-Barrel a '66 frame with a Henry Barrel assembly.  Even put the two clapped out donors in the safe.  Just never got the build done though.  So:  Who dun nit??  Weak Mind wants to know !!  Pretty Please.  May have to dust off those donors and actually finishing the project for just "One More Build."

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
Fix that Stupid Otto Kerekid
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I had an OLD Henry with lots of parts that are no longer made and the parts in it were so far out of spec it was basically useless.  I was going to make it into a Transitional Henry so I bought the Transitional forearm and loading gate before I found out the Henry was junk.  I had a .32-20 Uberti 73 I had converted to .32 Mag but decided to convert it to something else.  So I pulled the barrels and started measuring.  The Henry frame is longer in the front than the 66 or 73 so I cut off the front of the Henry frame and made a spacer out of it to space and seat the barrel properly.  Turned out to be a bigger PITA that I thought it would be.  The biggest problem, and something I had not anticipated, was the center to center distance between the mag tube and barrel on the Henry was much closer together that the 73 with its separate mag tube.  Finally got everything together and working.  It is an interesting piece.

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On 10/17/2021 at 4:58 AM, WOLFY said:

 

If history is consistent, no one called the 60 & 66 by their years (when they were new).  They were Henrys.  The “Improved Henry” being the later model, was still called a Henry.   

 

They called the 66 the Yellow Boy. I think it was nicknamed that by an Indian Chief.

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Larsen, don’t own a 73 but …. A 60, 66, two Rossi’s and a 94 … all brass.

One of the Rossi’s  is a carbine

I like brass …

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