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Loading 1897 when staged, inserting shell before picking up gun


Broke N West
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None whatsoever.

Very comon method for 97 shooters that pull multiple shells to drop one in the port on pickup to avoid juggling too many shells in hand.

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I dont do it that way.

Im left handed; pull 4 shells right handed and load all from the right side.

But I have relatively big hands and can control 4 shells - but for some that have smaller hands find the drop one in the port first benefits them.

 

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Creeker.  Your definition of “on pick up” was what started a debate at a match today. The shell inserted before the gun was picked up.  So arguably the gun was ‘loaded’ but not in the possession (albeit only a momentary delay) of the shooter.  
Yes, can be easily corrected by physical contact with the gun by the other hand as the shell is inserted.   But the timing was the issue with one eagled eyed spotter.  Curious if this has been experienced before.   

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   If any part of the shell is in the chamber and the shooter does not have one hand touching the gun it would be a SDQ . As long as the shooter has one hand on the gun there is no penalty no matter where the shell is.

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1 hour ago, LASSITER#2080 said:

   If any part of the shell is in the chamber and the shooter does not have one hand touching the gun it would be a SDQ . As long as the shooter has one hand on the gun there is no penalty no matter where the shell is.

This

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2 hours ago, Broke N West said:

1897 staged flat.   Loading gate accessible.  Shooter loads one shell, then picks up the gun.  
Any penalty or transgression?

 

You state the shooter” loads” one. Do you mean it was actually inserted into chamber while laying on the table or dropped into the open ejection port and was on the carrier, then shooter racked the action? 
 

You mention Loading gate? Are you referring to the Ejection port on a 97,

Or was the shell inserted into the magazine tube before being picked up?

Edited by Captain Clark
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The shooter does not have to keep a hand on the gun.  You have until the next gun is fired to correct an issue with a live round or empty round left on the carrier.   So long as the shooter picks up the shotgun and shoots it, it is a no call.

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Captain.  Good correction on terminology.  The ‘ejection port’ was open.  Where we cowboys typically load single rounds and then close the action prior to firing.  
The whole question revolves around putting a shot shell into this loading port - without touching any other part of the gun.   Then (after an indeterminate pause) picking up the shotgun, racking the action, and firing.  
Is this a hanging offense?  Or an acceptable loading procedure for an 1897?

 

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38 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

The shooter does not have to keep a hand on the gun.  You have until the next gun is fired to correct an issue with a live round or empty round left on the carrier.   So long as the shooter picks up the shotgun and shoots it, it is a no call.

Please post a link to support this statement. 

OLG 

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Ive had this discussion with 3 black pins over the years.  2 called it clean 1 sdq.   So I have no clue

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Quote

 

Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire

– Shotguns

A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only (some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm) :

- Empty.

 

SHB p.15

 

This is one of those conditions...unless any part of the round is in the chamber.

(as Lassiter mentioned) 

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97s staged with the port up stand a good chance of an empty case or lead splatter landing in the action. Either condition will cost a lot of time to correct. 
 

 

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31 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

97s staged with the port up stand a good chance of an empty case or lead splatter landing in the action. Either condition will cost a lot of time to correct. 
 

 

 

Been doing it ever since I've been shooting a '97.  I've never had a problem.  I do try to be aware where my brass is going.

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33 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

97s staged with the port up stand a good chance of an empty case or lead splatter landing in the action. Either condition will cost a lot of time to correct. 
 

 

Shot a 97 for 14 years with the Port up...never had a problem.

 

But...what do I know...

 

Phantom

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6 minutes ago, Null N. Void said:

 

Been doing it ever since I've been shooting a '97.  I've never had a problem.  I do try to be aware where my brass is going.


 Personally have seen it  happen 3 times. 1 empty case and lead splatter twice. 
 

 

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Had a friend shooting, wearing a nice big shady hat with a roll on the brim.  He shot his rifle string and leaned over to retrieve his ‘97 to complete the stage. Several pieces of empty rifle brass tumbled off the brim of his hat and more than one dropped into the open port of the shotgun!

 

From then on, he staged the shotgun with the port down! :lol:

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7 hours ago, Broke N West said:

Creeker.  Your definition of “on pick up” was what started a debate at a match today. The shell inserted before the gun was picked up.  So arguably the gun was ‘loaded’ but not in the possession (albeit only a momentary delay) of the shooter.  
Yes, can be easily corrected by physical contact with the gun by the other hand as the shell is inserted.   But the timing was the issue with one eagled eyed spotter.  Curious if this has been experienced before.   

Why isn’t the “eagle eyed spotter” watching the steel for hits and misses and keeping his pie hole shut, which is his ONLY function as a “spotter” and letting the TO watch the gun and hold the timer which is his function??

 

BD

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1 hour ago, Buckshot Dobbs said:

Why isn’t the “eagle eyed spotter” watching the steel for hits and misses and keeping his pie hole shut, which is his ONLY function as a “spotter” and letting the TO watch the gun and hold the timer which is his function??

 

That is NOT the only function of the spotters.

REF: SHB pp.25-26

......: RO1 p.26
......: RO2 pp.8-9

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add references
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I was TO. Shell was NOT in chamber. No call. This would be no different than a "loaded" rifle with nothing in the chamber staged and waiting for use.

 

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1 hour ago, Sixgun Seamus said:

I was TO. Shell was NOT in chamber. No call. This would be no different than a "loaded" rifle with nothing in the chamber staged and waiting for use.

 

Rifles aren't staged 'open' ;)

OLG 

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There are exceptions or "leeway" given in some other areas of the Rules...(170 when drawing/holstering etc)  I would personally suggest this is another area suitable for similar consideration.   Whats that saying?  "Don't be a hardass?" ;)

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26 minutes ago, Constable Nelson #11784 said:

There are exceptions or "leeway" given in some other areas of the Rules...(170 when drawing/holstering etc)  I would personally suggest this is another area suitable for similar consideration.   Whats that saying?  "Don't be a hardass?" ;)

 

It already is. ;)

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If only John Browning would have designed the 1897 to not be a single shot pump gun or at most have a magazine tube that only holds more than one extra shell.  I guess he made the magazine tube longer for balance or something...

 

SASS's rules that handicap the 87 and 97 shotguns have never made sense and that's all I will say on this dead horse flogging topic.

Edited by The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213
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On 10/3/2021 at 9:19 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Shot a 97 for 14 years with the Port up...never had a problem.

 

But...what do I know...

 

Phantom

It happened to Ellie once, it's amazing how crumpled a 38 brass can get in there! She lays it port down now. I guess it's like those who don't rotate a pistol cylinder---one day there will be a high primer. Murphy's law is prevalent.

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Why is it, after the answer is given, to include references in the rules, there are still those who just can't accept the subject is actually closed and continue with unending "But What If"  "but where I shoot"  "But when I shoot"  "But why I do it" add nauseam.

 

Not to mention drifting the thread into the next county.

Edited by Colorado Coffinmaker
Stir the Pot a little
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On 10/3/2021 at 1:14 PM, LASSITER#2080 said:

   If any part of the shell is in the chamber and the shooter does not have one hand touching the gun it would be a SDQ . As long as the shooter has one hand on the gun there is no penalty no matter where the shell is.

 

On 10/3/2021 at 4:06 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire

– Shotguns

A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only (some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm) :

- Empty

SHB p.15

 

This is one of those conditions...unless any part of the round is in the chamber.

(as Lassiter mentioned) 

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