Savvy Jack Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 It was right under my nose the whole time. Winchester offered center fire cartridges for Colt's 45 in their 1875 catalog. I also spotted this box. Winchester did not start sealing their boxes until mid-1874. This box could be 1873 or even maybe 1874. Winchester did not start headstamping their cases until 1884ish. This sheds a lot of light on civilians, Cowboys, Outlaws and Lawmen carrying the 45 Colt as early as 1874/1875. Interestingly there is little to no examples of civilian cartridges prior to 1884.....except for this one. I bet there is more, maybe I have been looking in the wrong place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Just based on the language "COLT'S NEW BREECH LOADING REVOLVER" I would guess you're right, 1873 or 1874 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I wasn't aware that shrinkwrap packaging has been around for so long ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 And they don’t call it “.45 Colt”. EDIT: Ruger labels their .45 Colt guns “.45 Cal.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 16 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: And the don’t call it “.45 Colt”. EDIT: Ruger labels their .45 Colt guns “.45 Cal.” And here I thought it was Looooooooooooooooooooooooooooong Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I thought that the early 45 Colt had an internal centerfire primer. How can they " be loaded many times?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 I would guess that is one of the reasons that statement is on there. Colt manufactured ammunition, or maybe US government arsenal manufactured ammunition, would be loaded with Benet priming, and is throwaway, just like rimfire. But remember that in 1873 Winchester brought out a rifle using a centerfire cartridge that did not use Benet priming, and was reloadable. So one of their selling points would be, "by ours instead of the competition's, and you can reload the empties". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 Yeap, the cartridge photo in Winchester's 1875 catalog shows the external center fire priming system. It is my understanding that later boxes or at least early UMC boxes show the Hobbs and Orcutt patent while later boxes (1876ish) only show the Hobbs patent. 1875 Winchester catalog (listed under Center-Fire cartridges) 1895 Winchester catalog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 Well that kind of knocks the pins out from under the urban legend of why a shot of whiskey is called a shot. The story goes that a drink of whiskey and a round of 45 ammunition cost the same price, so when the cowboy did not have the money to pay for his whiskey he would give the bartender a cartridge. "A shot for a shot." Back in the day, beer was a nickel and whiskey was a dime. So if a cartridge cost a dime, then a box of 50 cost $5. Since the working cowboy generally made a dollar a day (30 a month and found), that would be 5 days' pay for a box of ammunition. That always seemed kind of steep to me. But we have that ad up there. $22 a thousand, which would be $11 for 500, or $1.10 for a box of 50. Still a day's pay, but not five. And the cartridge cost two cents. Can't really see a bartender trading a 10-cent glass of whiskey for a 2-cent cartridge. Not if he wanted to keep his job for very long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Seamus Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 3 hours ago, Savvy Jack said: I'll take 5 cases please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Alpo said: Well that kind of knocks the pins out from under the urban legend of why a shot of whiskey is called a shot. The story goes that a drink of whiskey and a round of 45 ammunition cost the same price, so when the cowboy did not have the money to pay for his whiskey he would give the bartender a cartridge. "A shot for a shot." Back in the day, beer was a nickel and whiskey was a dime. So if a cartridge cost a dime, then a box of 50 cost $5. Since the working cowboy generally made a dollar a day (30 a month and found), that would be 5 days' pay for a box of ammunition. That always seemed kind of steep to me. But we have that ad up there. $22 a thousand, which would be $11 for 500, or $1.10 for a box of 50. Still a day's pay, but not five. And the cartridge cost two cents. Can't really see a bartender trading a 10-cent glass of whiskey for a 2-cent cartridge. Not if he wanted to keep his job for very long. Myths are amazing aren't they? I can think of a few more myths myself, directly related to this cartridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 A store might buy a case of cartridges, but just like now, would mark up the price to sell to their customers by the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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