Fallon Kid Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Just some info in these hard times. I picked up (5) S&W 38 cal pocket guns recently. As we all know anything ammo related is scarce, expensive or not to be found. I need 38 S&W brass and found .357 brass will fit most of the 38 S&W brass criteria if cut down. I don’t shoot .357 but have several hundred rounds I have picked up as result of Cowboy shooting (I use 38 special) and gets easily mixed in with my pick-ups. First thing needed is to cut .357 brass near SAMI specs (.775) I found cutting at 1/32sec or a tad more leaves room for good trimming. Don’t try to cut exact. The brass will never cut straight without some high end equipment. I bought a Harbor 6” cut off saw. Make sure to use metal cut off blades and NO type of steel blade. The attached PIC (1) displays a proto type jig to hold brass at proper length. Insert brass in back hole ensure fully seated. I’m sure anyone can improve on this idea. The rest is basic case preparation. Trim to size. And may vary from SAMI. I measured commercial loaded ammo and case was .677 so use your best reloading knowledge. I am starting with .780 as my guns don’t really care and I got a fudge factor. I am not recommending you do this but just letting you know what I’m doing in a crunch. I am planning to use black powder and will fire form brass in a 38 police special (38 S&W of course) It has a strong action. My top breaks are older than me and that’s old. Also no liberals were harmed during any case preparation sequence Please excuse pic aspects. For some reason I correct and they still post askew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Catorce Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Thanks for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 .357 brass and .38 Special brass is smaller in diameter than .38 S&W. Sure shortened .357 brass will go in the chamber but they will likley split when fired. .38 S&W will not chamber in a .38 Special chamber as it is to large in diameter. Thousands of war surplus S&W Victory revolvers chambered in .38 S&W for the British were ruined by "rechambering" them for .38 Special in order to sell them on the American market. The Specials would load but would split or deform. The .38 S&W bullet is also larger in diameter than a .357/.38 Special. .38 Smith & Wesson Bullet diameter .361 in (9.2 mm) Neck diameter .3855 in (9.79 mm) Base diameter .3865 in (9.82 mm) Rim diameter .440 in (11.2 mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallon Kid Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 A 94 year old man got engaged to a 24 year old woman. The family on both sides was aghast and tried to talk them out of such a doomed marriage. They approached the old man and all reaffirmed than 99% of May-December marriages prove fatal. The old man is a shaken voice said, “well, if she dies, she dies.” Appreciate the feedback but I have short supply of brass. I re measured some dimensions. I’m using a factory PPU 38 S&W as baseline. PPU .357 mixed head Dia at ctr of brass .380 .378 Rim dia .440 .440 Base dia .381 .380 Cast bullet size .3585 the split case was considered but I found many users stating they did not have problem after many reloads. I only plan to neck size vice full sizing after fired formed. My first choice is to by proper brass, But where? And I will follow up with a review after a few firings. Hard data overcomes speculation. It may well not pan out and I’ve hand many plans fall through. I get back up and try to correct the problem. The problem is I have the guns and nothing to shoot in them. And again thanks for taking time to review. I am always open to hear another point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Try running a 38 S&W case thru a 38 sp die the difference is significant. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Those of us old silhouette shooters used to have good luck fire forming wildcat brass using 1 or 2 grains of Bullseye with a paraffin wax plug in the neck end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallon Kid Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 Thanks Snake for info. And all taking time to comment. Getting to go to shop and set up proper line to crank out a few hundred modified 38 S&W. I have done a little math prior to starting and looking at the properties of brass. With cartridge brass not too much is ever static. We push and squeeze brass all day long and measurements change. The circumference delta between 38 spc and S&W is .0204. Note: C not diameter. The expansion needed for brass to conform to 38 S&W is down to third or fourth digits. It happens every time we light one off. Not willing to bet my life on anything but till you plan and test you don't have an answer. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallon Kid Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 The saga continues. Sun I cut down the .357 cases(50) and first off a Harbor cut off is not precision. So leave room to trim to spec. Also I final trimmed cases to .773 or very near. (trimmer does job but not to thousands perfect) I noticed on thing that the .357 cases I have are thinner at mouth case than at new mouth when cut down. The sample cases varied a few .001 but were all thicker at the new cut down mouth. I took note. Mon I had emergency so did not work on this project. Went to mail box and had package. "Please God don't let it be the packages of springs I ordered" It was! So spent day working on one of the 4 top break pocket guns I bought a week ago. Got it up and running. So back to 38S&W. I had cast some .360 RN and made a dummy load. Tried it in a Hopkins and Allen police and case not fit due to expansion of thicker case and the stated diameter for a S&W38. So I slugged the Hopkins and Allen and it was .355, And the rifling overall is best described as not overly pronounced. I resized bullets to .357 and made a dummy round. It measures out to a S&W38 cartridge except for rim thickness. This could be issue in other guns but all my prospective shooters work fine. Plan to load and test at range today. I am debating about using Black MZ 2ff or Schuetzen 3fff. Bullet is lead 10bhn and 125gn. Lube is my homebrew. (again sorry for pic. I'm trying to fix but them pocket guns keep calling me out) LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted September 29, 2021 Share Posted September 29, 2021 You want to do that, that's fine. You want to teach other people how to do that, that's fine also. But why the heck is this in the classifieds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallon Kid Posted September 29, 2021 Author Share Posted September 29, 2021 My error. I have sold two items here so I was not aware of different forums. I posted my test results at the correct forum having figured out my mistake. I'm sorry if I offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butch McGie, SASS#71758 Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 Maybe you don't need that many but you can get all you want from Starline brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WOLFY Posted September 30, 2021 Share Posted September 30, 2021 On 9/28/2021 at 9:16 PM, Alpo said: You want to do that, that's fine. You want to teach other people how to do that, that's fine also. But why the heck is this in the classifieds? Haha, I was hoping this was a FS ad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fort Reno Kid Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 Howdy Pard I’m fortunate to at least a sufficient supply of 38 S&W. Bot it pre-Obama era. Thanks to your good info I now know of an alternative source should my stuff run out. Adios Fort Reno Kid . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 There is some good info on this subject on the wire section...Loading info for S&W .38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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