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Too bad Western 3 Gun died.


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Looks like fun. The biggest difference I see from CAS is the full use of the left and right limits of the range. CAS rarely has targets not straight downrange from the firing line, even with downrange movement we seldom shoot to the left or right of that movement.

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1 hour ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

 

I shot almost all of the yearly World Cups at Piru. I don't  remember very many, if any, regular steel targets other then the shotgun knockdowns. The stages were full of the targets with the center knockouts and a small number of the targets with the bonus overlay that allowed multiple shots on one target. The targets with the center knockouts allowed only one shot per target.

 

If you shot W3G using standard plates with no bonus possible or with cardboard that allowed bonus scoring that would be a diluted form of W3G, not the full experience to judge it by.

Like I said-we shot at Piru. ;)

Not all targets had the center bonus plate, most did.

I competed for last place,  and did achieve that goal more than once :lol:

FWIW: Lefty did everything he could to promote W3G.

OLG 

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59 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Like I said-we shot at Piru. ;)

Not all targets had the center bonus plate, most did.

I competed for last place,  and did achieve that goal more than once :lol:

FWIW: Lefty did everything he could to promote W3G.

OLG 

Lefty was disappointed to say the least, and these days doesn't want to talk about it.  Sam Houston left for AZ when the Piru range changed hands.  Now working for Dillon (perfect job for him). 

Those days were great fun and I miss it a lot.

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33 minutes ago, Escopeta Jake said:

Why couldn’t it be offered as a side match just like wild Bunch ?

 

 

It could. Range capability being the limiting factor. I see a lot of PCC "side" matches offered at large matches.

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1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Allie you have been to enough TG meetings to know about the moving while shooting issue.  That fact that SASS members shoot W3G, IPSC or anything else without straying from the "party line" really has little to do with whether W3G style shooting is going to be allowed at SASS matches.  That style of shooting is totally outside the party line.

There is much more to be gleaned from W3G than "moving while shooting."

 

I like:

painting of targets between shooters

no scenarios, just shoot the targets as you see them

no need for counters, it is obvious which targets were hit

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

There is much more to be gleaned from W3G than "moving while shooting."

 

I like:

painting of targets between shooters

no scenarios, just shoot the targets as you see them

no need for counters, it is obvious which targets were hit

 

 

Indeed, just move, look, shoot.  No such thing as a procedural.

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1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

There is much more to be gleaned from W3G than "moving while shooting."

 

I like:

painting of targets between shooters

no scenarios, just shoot the targets as you see them

no need for counters, it is obvious which targets were hit

 

 

Much greater accuracy component with the bonus knockouts and overlays. Very few complete misses because you were aiming at the smaller bonus not the whole plate.

 

Painting was mostly one hit on the plate and flip up the bonus. Most of us moved to a spot where you could shoot several targets then moved again and shot several more but rarely as you moved. The better shooters did more moving and shooting at the same time but they weren't sprinting.

 

It worked great shooting black powder because you weren't standing in one spots shooting 10 rounds creating one big vloud of smoke.

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19 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

But if a younger crowd were to take an interest... And join. And participate. Yes, the demographics would change. But if membership does not grow, then all any remaining shooters will be capable of is Stand and Deliver stages.

 

I'm way past Run 'N Gun myself, but some movement is fun.

 

In the Northeast unfortunately we lose far more shooters every year than we get in new members.    Look at state match & regional results, the vast majority of shooters are forty niner and older.  I would say the majority of shooters don't want a lot more movement.

 

As for the younger crowd it costs about $4k and up for a new shooter who doesn't have any guns & other eqiupment suitable for SASS. that's a lot of money. 

 

 Most younger shooters did not grow up watching Westerns, they grew up watching action movies with Stallone, Schwarzenegger, Willis & Gibson and those are the guns they want to shoot if they shoot competitively, not guns from their father's or grandfather's westerns.  These two factors alone is why SASS seems to be shrinking, at least here in the Northeast.

 

 

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While the PCC side matches are fun I really can’t get in to them.

If I go to a cowboy match I want to shoot cowboy guns. 
I think for a club that could manage it a side match day that included Wild Bunch in the morning and Western 3 Gun in the afternoon would be great.

I also don’t understand why there isn’t a SASS version of CFDA, which could be shot as a side event.

Edited by Escopeta Jake
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Yeah and we could have Zootsuiter, Tommy Gun, WWI and II and Civil War side matches.  How many resources do people think clubs have?  Why would SASS have a version of CFDA when there IS CFDA.  At Winter Range (now EOT) CFDA is at the match and has a shooting booth set up.  On side match Wednesday at Winter Range it takes a minimum of 125 volunteers to man the existing side matches. People have to be realistic about their ever expanding wish lists.  It takes time, money, space and volunteers and oh yes SHOOTERS to make a side match viable.

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3 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Yeah and we could have Zootsuiter, Tommy Gun, WWI and II and Civil War side matches.  How many resources do people think clubs have?  Why would SASS have a version of CFDA when there IS CFDA.  At Winter Range (now EOT) CFDA is at the match and has a shooting booth set up.  On side match Wednesday at Winter Range it takes a minimum of 125 volunteers to man the existing side matches. People have to be realistic about their ever expanding wish lists.  It takes time, money, space and volunteers and oh yes SHOOTERS to make a side match viable.

Yea and plus most of the guys I shoot with don’t do side matches anymore except maybe at the 3 day shoots. I stopped doing side matches a long time ago!

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15 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Yeah and we could have Zootsuiter, Tommy Gun, WWI and II and Civil War side matches.  How many resources do people think clubs have?  Why would SASS have a version of CFDA when there IS CFDA.  At Winter Range (now EOT) CFDA is at the match and has a shooting booth set up.  On side match Wednesday at Winter Range it takes a minimum of 125 volunteers to man the existing side matches. People have to be realistic about their ever expanding wish lists.  It takes time, money, space and volunteers and oh yes SHOOTERS to make a side match viable.

This is where I believe SASS has gotten things wrong...relegating everything to side matches or stand alone matches.  

 

Wild Bunch shouldn't be a standalone match, just make it a standard shooting category.  If my memory serves me right. eons ago there was a "modern" category for SASS where you shot stuff with adjustable sights like blackhawks.  I remember people griping that adjustable Colts/replicas were also in that category.  Its probably far past time to bring modern back IMO.  

 

SASS has been stuck in a proverbial rut for far too long.  Certain rules (against movement, against loading shotguns, etc) are inviolate and beyond contestation.  Either SASS needs to get flexibility and progress or it will continue to fade.  

 

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3 hours ago, The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 said:

This is where I believe SASS has gotten things wrong...relegating everything to side matches or stand alone matches.  

 

Wild Bunch shouldn't be a standalone match, just make it a standard shooting category.  If my memory serves me right. eons ago there was a "modern" category for SASS where you shot stuff with adjustable sights like blackhawks.  I remember people griping that adjustable Colts/replicas were also in that category.  Its probably far past time to bring modern back IMO.  

 

SASS has been stuck in a proverbial rut for far too long.  Certain rules (against movement, against loading shotguns, etc) are inviolate and beyond contestation.  Either SASS needs to get flexibility and progress or it will continue to fade.  

 

Who there pardner, make wild bunch a standard category???  SASS bosses don't like that kind of talk!

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5 hours ago, The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 said:

This is where I believe SASS has gotten things wrong...relegating everything to side matches or stand alone matches.  

 

Wild Bunch shouldn't be a standalone match, just make it a standard shooting category.  If my memory serves me right. eons ago there was a "modern" category for SASS where you shot stuff with adjustable sights like blackhawks.  I remember people griping that adjustable Colts/replicas were also in that category.  Its probably far past time to bring modern back IMO.  

 

SASS has been stuck in a proverbial rut for far too long.  Certain rules (against movement, against loading shotguns, etc) are inviolate and beyond contestation.  Either SASS needs to get flexibility and progress or it will continue to fade.  

 

 

Now your going to have to decide which flavor of shooters you are going to offend.

 

The WB shooters because the targets are way too big and close.

 

The SASS shooters because the targets are too small and far away. 

 

 

 

:P

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36 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Now your going to have to decide which flavor of shooters you are going to offend.

 

The WB shooters because the targets are way too big and close.

 

The SASS shooters because the targets are too small and far away. 

 

 

 

:P

 

 

Plus CAS matches are typically 10-10-4.  WB matches are 10-20+-6+.  They shoot different scenarios at different types of targets.  Combine them offend everyone and the shooter numbers for both will drop like a lead brick.

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Boy I had to look to see if this was a fifteen year old thread that had been resurrected about Western3 Gun.  It almost seemed as though that someone cut and pasted all of the same concerns, pro and against from those old threads. :)

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W3G was GREAT fun; so is Wild Bunch.  Each contains specific challenges, and each adds spice and variety to the overall game that is Cowboy Action Shooting.

 

Just need bodies for writing stages and hucking steel, and I'll be there....

 

Cheers,

FJT

Edited by Frederick Jackson Turner
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i gave up three gun because my body just wont allow me to do whats required any more , as fun as that looks , its not my game anymore - hope my son and grandson  chases it tho 

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15 hours ago, watab kid said:

i gave up three gun because my body just wont allow me to do whats required any more , as fun as that looks , its not my game anymore - hope my son and grandson  chases it tho 

I just shot it my way, which is no more difficult than a SASS match. Here is a photo from one of my first 3Gun matches. We taped the cardboard targets instead of painting metal targets.

 

 

Allie at W3G.jpg

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On 9/22/2021 at 6:34 PM, Last Call Saul said:

Which brings a question of is there a future for CAS in its current form when "geezers" hang it up?  I am 51 and just started this year.  I look around the loading table and wonder who will I shoot with in 10 years?  In 3-4 clubs around me there are maybe 4-5 people total under 50.. maybe 10-15 under 60.... 

 

What can be done to bring the younger aged shooters?  Maybe introducing a more challenging discipline?  Even if it doesn't "sell" with current demographics it could attract future shooters?

 

You're not going to attract under-40 shooters to SASS unless you create a new "what if " category with cowboys running around using Glocks and AR-15s.

 

I've complained to all my local gun shops about how there are no single actions or lever guns on the shelves, and the universal answer is always "they don't sell". Us cowboys are losing out to the modern TactiCool crowd as far as the shooting sports are concerned.

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7 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

I just shot it my way, which is no more difficult than a SASS match. Here is a photo from one of my first 3Gun matches. We taped the cardboard targets instead of painting metal targets.

 

 

Allie at W3G.jpg

you misunderstood - i gave up modern three gun and came to SASS/CA , i did not know of cowboy three gun till this post , i might actually enjoy that albeit be real slow and like you shoot it as me , it does look fun , 

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On 9/24/2021 at 11:55 AM, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Plus CAS matches are typically 10-10-4.  WB matches are 10-20+-6+.  They shoot different scenarios at different types of targets.  Combine them offend everyone and the shooter numbers for both will drop like a lead brick.

We tried shooting WB and SASS together. One of the biggest issues is a different set of rules for each. Spotters and TO's needed to be well versed in each. DIdn't happen.

That and target types and number of rounds was a deterent.

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This, like how do we attract new, "younger" members has been hashed overbeating-dead.gif.bfa6eb4bfe49c88d4f5a6682d35b2664.gif

Young people want to shoot semi-autos, AR's and tactical shotguns. It gives them the opportunity to shoot multiple shooting sports. SASS guns let you shoot..............SASS

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

It's fading because of aging of it's members. The ultimate reason, he got old and died!

I hear the "get old part"...when I started shooting SASS I was a young buck now I'm practically a 49er.

 

One important thing SASS has done that could potentially capture the youth market is the targets we use.  Shooting steel targets for a basic hit vs. cardboard and taping up targets after every shooter is so much faster.  Younger shooters are always in a rush to do things.  SASS at practically every club I've shot at can complete 5+ stages of a monthly match in less than 4 hrs.  

 

 

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We will continue to slowly wither away simply because SASS HQ does ZERO advertising.   HQ is relying on local clubs to pull in new members via word of mouth. We all can see how well that is working out.

 

Unless SASS HQ spends some money targeting potential new shooters, Cowboy Action Shooting will die out and all our highly modified firearms will end up being worthless.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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On 9/23/2021 at 1:21 PM, Banjo Bob said:

Okay, other than engaging the wrong target (designated firearm), clue me in.

While unfamiliar with W3G rules specifically (never seen them), the USPSA rule book lists the word “procedural” 41 times. I’m thinking that a few of those would apply at the said W3G match. YMMV.

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On 9/29/2021 at 7:48 PM, watab kid said:

i gave up modern three gun and came to SASS/CA

Me too. I worked for M.Dalton up in Holser canyon since the 90’s. Only once did I stray over to the CAS range and was AMAZED at what was going on. I was tied up financially to add another genre so stayed with the equipment I had. Fast forward to present and have now sold stuff to buy what I needed for SASS. Would have loved to try W3G.

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I'm not going to lie, I'm a little amazed that there aren't younger members. With the popularity of video games like Red Dead Redemption 2 (which is written in the style of all of the greatest western movies) I would have expected many younger SASS participants. I mean, this western video game sold something like 35 million copies!

 

I just don't see how we could get the word out to folks like that. 

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2 hours ago, Ted Forrester said:

I'm not going to lie, I'm a little amazed that there aren't younger members. With the popularity of video games like Red Dead Redemption 2 (which is written in the style of all of the greatest western movies) I would have expected many younger SASS participants. I mean, this western video game sold something like 35 million copies!

 

I just don't see how we could get the word out to folks like that. 

 

. Imagine how many potential new members could be targeted with a 15 second add embedded into the game.

 

Only SASS HQ can go after that kind of advertising

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