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Too bad Western 3 Gun died.


Currahee

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Requires overly and knock-out targets for scoring. 

But, then why couldn't we use just regular SASS targets and score as SASS?  In any event, the moving while shooting action is exciting. 

The 3-Gun range at the old Deadwood Boys was linear as you can see in the video and used built props to direct the shooting.  But it would be easy  to use barricades as USPA does and constantly change them for every match.

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Wonder how that would work with shared bays? Maybe the answer would be to consolidate one W3G stage into one entire bay. It looks like a lot of fun.

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10 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

It came, it went and It died for a reason.  No one showed up at the matches.

Because they tried to survive outside of SASS. We can incorporate some more action, in Cowboy Action. 

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It was not really new.  It was just USPSA shooting in cowboy clothes.  Most of us geezers that are the mainstay of SASS can't run, jump and dive under props anymore.  If position 2 is more than ten feet from position 1 you get all kinds of gripes about "I ain't here to run a marathon."  Keep the SASS demographics in mind.

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2 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

It was not really new.  It was just USPSA shooting in cowboy clothes.  Most of us geezers that are the mainstay of SASS can't run, jump and dive under props anymore.  If position 2 is more than ten feet from position 1 you get all kinds of gripes about "I ain't here to run a marathon."  Keep the SASS demographics in mind.

Sadly true.  I just hate to think of SASS as an old folks home outing.

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6 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

It was not really new.  It was just USPSA shooting in cowboy clothes.  Most of us geezers that are the mainstay of SASS can't run, jump and dive under props anymore.  If position 2 is more than ten feet from position 1 you get all kinds of gripes about "I ain't here to run a marathon."  Keep the SASS demographics in mind.

But if a younger crowd were to take an interest... And join. And participate. Yes, the demographics would change. But if membership does not grow, then all any remaining shooters will be capable of is Stand and Deliver stages.

 

I'm way past Run 'N Gun myself, but some movement is fun.

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6 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

But if a younger crowd were to take an interest... And join. And participate.

 

That is the issue that gets debated ad nauseam on the wire.  If anyone had the answer I am sure Misty Moonshine would hire him/her in an instant.

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1 hour ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

It was not really new.  It was just USPSA shooting in cowboy clothes.  Most of us geezers that are the mainstay of SASS can't run, jump and dive under props anymore.  If position 2 is more than ten feet from position 1 you get all kinds of gripes about "I ain't here to run a marathon."  Keep the SASS demographics in mind.


I shot a few W3G matches , I think a lot of folks thought they would get to used to moving and DQ in SASS matches, actually you run less than SASS as normally your shooting while moving, it was fun

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Which brings a question of is there a future for CAS in its current form when "geezers" hang it up?  I am 51 and just started this year.  I look around the loading table and wonder who will I shoot with in 10 years?  In 3-4 clubs around me there are maybe 4-5 people total under 50.. maybe 10-15 under 60.... 

 

What can be done to bring the younger aged shooters?  Maybe introducing a more challenging discipline?  Even if it doesn't "sell" with current demographics it could attract future shooters?

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Hardly an original observation, but the baby boomers are the last generation whose formative years were replete with Western movies and TV shows. And that drove CAS.

 

Elmore Leonard, in my opinion the best Western writer of  all, moved into crime writing in the sixties, and all but abandoned Westerns within a few years. It was purely the market: Westerns, the staple of genre fiction, were no longer selling, at least in short-story format. And we all remember how the cop and crime shows supplanted the Western TV series; a process complete in the '70s.

 

But a hopeful sign is a sort of slow renaissance of the Western. There have been a fair number of very good Western movies in just the last few years. There is a reaction afoot against the downgrading of American history of the last few years. It would be good to find a way to harness these developments.

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38 minutes ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

Hardly an original observation, but the baby boomers are the last generation whose formative years were replete with Western movies and TV shows. And that drove CAS.

 

Elmore Leonard, in my opinion the best Western writer of  all, moved into crime writing in the sixties, and all but abandoned Westerns within a few years. It was purely the market: Westerns, the staple of genre fiction, were no longer selling, at least in short-story format. And we all remember how the cop and crime shows supplanted the Western TV series; a process complete in the '70s.

 

But a hopeful sign is a sort of slow renaissance of the Western. There have been a fair number of very good Western movies in just the last few years. There is a reaction afoot against the downgrading of American history of the last few years. It would be good to find a way to harness these developments.

 

I did not grow up on westerns, only cowboys I saw in my childhood were in a form of satire showing the bad and the scary President Reagan wearing cowboy garb and a top hat in Soviet newspapers :)

 

I had no idea CAS existed until February this year when bougth an Interarms Virginian Dragoon in a deal too good to pass .  Soon I got too bored punching holes in the paper and started looking what I could do that was fun with it.  As soon I saw first SASS youtube video I was hooked... So maybe a generation does not need to grow up on westerns to partake in CAS if it would find something they like there?

 

And a discipline that attracts younger, more able bodied people, and (GASP) relaxed costuming requirements might be that?  I know, Spirit of the Game is important, and it is designed to be what it is on purpose, and I do my best and enjoy dressing up but when I talk to my friends who shoot - they might be more inclined to participate if there was more challenge, more physical rigor, less "old school".... W3G looks like just what they might like!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Last Call Saul said:

 

I had no idea CAS existed until February this year when bougth an Interarms Virginian Dragoon in a deal too good to pass .  

 

I have a similar story, though I'm in the 'Western' era, I knew nothing of CAS. I was a life-long shotgun owner and bird hunter. When my dad died 20 years back, I got a S&W Model 10 .38 spl from his estate, and got interested in revolvers for the first time. I saw a Uberti .45 Colt with Bisley grip, thought  it was a beautiful thing, bought it, then went lookin for info on single actions. Found SASS forthwith, and bought several more guns....

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As far as Western 3 Gun, you had to shoot it as they did in Piru with most of the targets having the bonus knock out and some targets with the overlay that allowed multiple hits on one target. And yes each stage had an individual bay that allowed downrange movement. That allowed you to get the full experience of what W3G was and could be.

 

If you tried shooting it with cardboard targets so you could score bonuses it wasn't the same experience. It required a lot of targets and would be a big expense for a club to start from scratch. Expense was the biggest issue with W3G having a chance to grow. Most that did get the chance to shoot it in Piru loved it.

 

As you can see in the video, Bud is not sprinting from position to position but he is moving and shooting at the same time. There is much more running at full speed (for those capable of it) in USPSA.  But running or shoiting on the move is never required, it is just allowed.

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38 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

W3G was fun for sure.

To bad SASS won't adopt some of their procedures like starting with a loaded SG(2 rnds only).

The bonus targets were fun too.

OLG 

I'll take your SG thought and run with it...

 

SASS should really revamp their shotgun rules.  If you have a SxS, you should also be able to fully load a shotgun.  Furthermore, practically every new shooter I've tried to introduce to SASS finds the arbitrary 2 rounds only rule strange.  Pumps and 87's  should be able to freely load up to their max capacity.  

 

Unfortunately, there will never be a change SASS's shotgun rules.  

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13 minutes ago, The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 said:

I'll take your SG thought and run with it...

 

SASS should really revamp their shotgun rules.  If you have a SxS, you should also be able to fully load a shotgun.  Furthermore, practically every new shooter I've tried to introduce to SASS finds the arbitrary 2 rounds only rule strange.  Pumps and 87's  should be able to freely load up to their max capacity.  

 

Unfortunately, there will never be a change SASS's shotgun rules.  

Start with 2 in the SG, whether it's SxS(SxS left open)or repeater(chamber clear).

Be allowed to stoke'em on the clock. ;)

OLG 

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13 hours ago, Banjo Bob said:

Requires overly and knock-out targets for scoring. 

But, then why couldn't we use just regular SASS targets and score as SASS?  

Did not require knock-out, that was a bonus target.

SASS style targets were common.

We shot at Piru many times, and it was fun. ;)

OLG 

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That video does have more movement than most SASS shoots but not THAT much more. We still have some movement at some of the clubs I shoot at.

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3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Did not require knock-out, that was a bonus target.

SASS style targets were common.

We shot at Piru many times, and it was fun. ;)

OLG 

 

I shot almost all of the yearly World Cups at Piru. I don't  remember very many, if any, regular steel targets other then the shotgun knockdowns. The stages were full of the targets with the center knockouts and a small number of the targets with the bonus overlay that allowed multiple shots on one target. The targets with the center knockouts allowed only one shot per target.

 

If you shot W3G using standard plates with no bonus possible or with cardboard that allowed bonus scoring that would be a diluted form of W3G, not the full experience to judge it by.

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3 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

That video does have more movement than most SASS shoots but not THAT much more. We still have some movement at some of the clubs I shoot at.

 

It is not the movement that killed it as far as SASS was concerned.  It was the movement while shooting on the move.  This has been discussed numerous times at numerous TG meetings.  The bottom line is given the age and skill level of most SASS members SASS did not want people running around with cocked loaded firearms.  Just remember all the BS about some 97 shooters walking while shooting claiming they were motionless while the shot was fired.  SASS put a stop to that.

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10 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

As far as Western 3 Gun, you had to shoot it as they did in Piru with most of the targets having the bonus knock out and some targets with the overlay that allowed multiple hits on one target. And yes each stage had an individual bay that allowed downrange movement. That allowed you to get the full experience of what W3G was and could be.

 

If you tried shooting it with cardboard targets so you could score bonuses it wasn't the same experience. It required a lot of targets and would be a big expense for a club to start from scratch. Expense was the biggest issue with W3G having a chance to grow. Most that did get the chance to shoot it in Piru loved it.

 

As you can see in the video, Bud is not sprinting from position to position but he is moving and shooting at the same time. There is much more running at full speed (for those capable of it) in USPSA.  But running or shoiting on the move is never required, it is just allowed.

I had a "blast" at my first W3G match at Piru. I had a shoot out for last place and I wasn't last (did I win or lose, LOL). It was so much fun. I had shot W3G before with cardboard targets. There was no comparison to a match with metal targets at Piru.

 

Any club that has dedicated berms, should give it a try. The metal targets could easily be used for SASS. It would bring in a breath of new life to SASS!

 

PS IIRC Misty has even shot W3G and Hipshot has no objection to it. So, you can try it without straying from the "party line."

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Allie you have been to enough TG meetings to know about the moving while shooting issue.  That fact that SASS members shoot W3G, IPSC or anything else without straying from the "party line" really has little to do with whether W3G style shooting is going to be allowed at SASS matches.  That style of shooting is totally outside the party line.

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