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A few of us have been using "Slippery Bullets" with black powder with fantastic results. No issues what so ever and very easy to clean BP from bore. I'm going to shoot some of these bullets into bullet retrieval media with both black and smokeless to see if the coating melts or stays intact.

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I tried coated bullets in a muzzle loader and it didn't work.  The musket needs a lot of BP lube.  I have never tried cartridges with BP and coated bullets.

 

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8 minutes ago, Rancho Roy said:

A few of us have been using "Slippery Bullets" with black powder with fantastic results. No issues what so ever and very easy to clean BP from bore. I'm going to shoot some of these bullets into bullet retrieval media with both black and smokeless to see if the coating melts or stays intact.

 

What kind of powder?  Real black is likely to need lube as it dries out so quickly. 

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36 minutes ago, Rancho Roy said:

A few of us have been using "Slippery Bullets" with black powder with fantastic results. No issues what so ever and very easy to clean BP from bore. I'm going to shoot some of these bullets into bullet retrieval media with both black and smokeless to see if the coating melts or stays intact.

What is a slippery bullet?

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Yes.    No.   If you are asking if you can shoot Powder Coated Bullets with BP, Sure you can.  As long as you load the lube groves with BP comparable Lube.  If your asking if you can shoot BP with Powder Coated without lube, the answer is No.  Yet, you could shoot Powder Coat without lube.  You positively WILL NOT like the results.

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JC,  you talking 38s match work or long range.

I shoot coated bullets in my 38/357s with T7 2F ( four different weights work well for me).

Hope you are doing well.

bb

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Let’s be clear. Many folks refer to BP and subs interchangeably. Black powder - Goex, Shutzen, et al are NOT the same as BP substitutes like APP, Black MZ, 777 etc. 

 

You could shoot real powder black powder and powder coated bullets without BP compatible lube, but you will be extremely unhappy. Subs will give you a more harmonious outcome, same as smokeless propellants. 

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Real BP & coated bullets -- Ever heard the phrase "can't hit the broad side of a barn"?

This will be the description of your shooting after only a few rounds.

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Ophelia & myself have shot lots with coated 32's & 38's using Goex, APP, & 777 with no problems other than missing a few targets. We settled on 777 as a fine powder & no clumping.

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"Coated bullets" is painting with a broad brush. I've coated bullets with powder paint from Harbour Freight.  Then there is bullet makers using what looks to be a much better coating such as the Missouri Bullet Company Hi-Tek. 

 

5a5ebda27c7de_PowdercoatedbulletsJan2018.jpg.8726449278bbcf48342df2c6c7890193.jpg

 

Homemade powder coated with Harbour Freight paint.

 

Maybe this fall I'll load up a test batch of Hi-Tek and standard lubed bullets and do a side by side review. 

 

Maybe Scarlett will chime in with some details. 

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2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

"Coated bullets" is painting with a broad brush. I've coated bullets with powder paint from Harbour Freight.  Then there is bullet makers using what looks to be a much better coating such as the Missouri Bullet Company Hi-Tek. 

 

5a5ebda27c7de_PowdercoatedbulletsJan2018.jpg.8726449278bbcf48342df2c6c7890193.jpg

 

Homemade powder coated with Harbour Freight paint.

 

Maybe this fall I'll load up a test batch of Hi-Tek and standard lubed bullets and do a side by side review. 

 

Maybe Scarlett will chime in with some details. 

Here ya go Warden! :wub:
 

Powder coat from Harbor Freight and other places are LOADED with silica…abrasive.  Very bad for your barrel. The coating that professional Bullet casters use is Hi-Tek - brand name from Australia. While The ingredient list is mostly “proprietary” there is NO SILICA.  
 

I sell and shoot APP with coated or traditional lubed Bullet no issues. I have customers who shoot REAL BP with all sorts of bullets.  It works for some.  I don’t recommend it however, simply because I don’t want someone to take my recommendation without my knowing for sure the suggestion will work…

 

Bug hugs!

Scarlett

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PLUS ONE for Abilene Slim.

 

Lets be clear.  Triple Seven and APP are NOT actual Black Powder.  They are SUBSTITUTES.  They do not create fouling in the chambers and bore the same way and to the same extent actual Black Powder does.  You cannot make an Either - Or comparison. 

 

APP And Shooters World Sub or Black MZ can be shot with or without ANY lube.  BP cannot.  Citing one's experience with Subs when the OP specifically asks about BP, provides a disservice.

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27 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

PLUS ONE for Abilene Slim.

 

Lets be clear.  Triple Seven and APP are NOT actual Black Powder.  They are SUBSTITUTES.  They do not create fouling in the chambers and bore the same way and to the same extent actual Black Powder does.  You cannot make an Either - Or comparison. 

 

APP And Shooters World Sub or Black MZ can be shot with or without ANY lube.  BP cannot.  Citing one's experience with Subs when the OP specifically asks about BP, provides a disservice.

AS and CC, You are certainly correct.  Perhaps I jumped in to soon but when I think black powder propellants I, wrongly, think both ways, my error.  My many years shooting Goex (oops, Cowboy Goex)with a filler and SPG lubed bullets is way behind me.   

JC give me a call if I can help.  I have plenty of Cowboy Goex and filler if you can use it.

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When someone starts a new topic on this subject it would be helpful if they would be very specific about whether they're asking about real bp or which bp sub they're considering. Also what type of bullet and lube they are attempting to shoot. It would be much easier to give them a good answer  with less confusion.

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At the Maine State shoot a week ago a couple BP shooter that use full house loads are using Slippery's coated bullets with no other lube and say thay have no issues with fouling in the rifle or pistol as stated by Rancho Roy above. Give Slippery a call.

 

https://slipperybullets.com/

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3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

At the Maine State shoot a week ago a couple BP shooter that use full house loads are using Slippery's coated bullets with no other lube and say thay have no issues with fouling in the rifle or pistol as stated by Rancho Roy above. Give Slippery a call.

 

https://slipperybullets.com/

Was it real BP or one of the subs? 

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1 minute ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Was it real BP or one of the subs? 

Per Critter T. Longshot & Ruby Rose they are using Goex real BP. Shooting with them I would have to agree it was not substitue.

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3 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I would ask, what is being used to keep the Bore Fouling Soft ??

 

Have you ever considered the lube IS the fouling?  

 

I've been loading Goex FFG and using bullets lubed with Javilina that's 75% alox and 25% bees wax.  Guns have been running smooth and relatively clean. What's left is no greater than shooting BlackMZ.   Washes right out. 

 

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In the old days you would probably lose accuracy in the rifle and start missing, but targets are so close today that it is much less of a problem.  BP with no lube in pistols is no problem.  In rifle, swabbing between stages would probably work fine.

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1 hour ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I would ask, what is being used to keep the Bore Fouling Soft ??

I did ask and Critter said he hasn't seen an issue. He does run a spit patch down the rifle every few stages, but did before as well.  He doesn't appear to get too carried away with it. I guess it's like some Pards swab the shotgun chamber after every stage, I never swab and have never had a single hull hang up! But like everything else we do, everybody has different results!

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4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

APP And Shooters World Sub or Black MZ can be shot with or without ANY lube.  BP cannot.  Citing one's experience with Subs when the OP specifically asks about BP, provides a disservice.

I agree with you 100%! I was addressing the difference in the coatings - like subs and the real thing - they are not apples/apples. 
 

Hugs!

Scarlett

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A little late to the party here but my experience with 777, the only sub I've tried well at least that I can remember, has always been because I didnt have a BP lubed bullet on hand to shoot.  The only cartridge I load/shoot that I use 777 in now is the 25-20.  Why? Because I'm not going to cast and BP lube an itty bitty 85 grain bullet.

 

My understanding was that one of the primary reasons to shoot subs was that you didnt need a special bullet, load it bullseye or APP/777 etc it was all the same.

 

Critter, a full house load shooting pard, used to get his big lube bullets for he and Ruby from me and when I saw them at the MA/RI/CT Tri-State in June he was talking about trying the Slippery brand coated bullets with real black.  I sent him an inquiry on another forum a while ago to see what his results were but had not heard back from him.  If he says they work thats good enough for me, unitl that time I'm not sending anything down the bbl with real black that doesnt have a BP specific lube on it.

 

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Thanks to all. 

 

Billy, I was asking for a friend who wants to shoot black powder (Elephant Fffg) with powder coated bullets because that's wat he can buy. I use real lead with SPG and Goex Fg in my .45 caliber single shots because I've plenty of both.

 

Thanks for the offer.

 

Cordially,

 

J.C.Bell SASS #15217 

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A few notes......Real Black powder with Slippery or Scarlet coated bullets (I believe they use the same coating)  AND A  WAD is reported to be zero issues. The wad might protect the coating on the base of the bullet from the intense BP heat. I've not discussed with those that load BP with coated bullets without a wad.

 

I've used substitute BP with and without wads with both Scarlet and Slippery coated bullets and the results are extremely positive in both cases. The bores are very clean and no fouling I can speak of. (38-40 and 44-40)

 

I too wonder if the lube is causing what many of us refer to as fouling.......Hmmmm?

 

Next week I'll be firing different bullets with different BP and substitutes into bullet retrieval material to see what the bullets look like after firing ....Should be interesting!

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34 minutes ago, Rancho Roy said:

Next week I'll be firing different bullets with different BP and substitutes into bullet retrieval material to see what the bullets look like after firing ....Should be interesting!

Please post pictures of the base of the bullets.  I think the heat from BP subs may damage the plastic on the base of coated bullets.

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OK.  The rest of the story.  In post # 2, R Roy said he was shooting "Slippery" bullets with "BP" with fantastic results.  NOT.  As in # 2 above, R Roy has been shooting Substitutes with Slippery bullets with fantastic results.  I'll buy that.  I shoot Powder Coated Bullets, Uncoated Bullets, Lubed Bullets and Un-lubed Bullets with Subs, specifically APP with "Fantastic Results."  APP just doesn't care.  It's a super good propellant.  As an additional, I also shoot Scarlet's Coated Bullets with APP.  Fantastic Results.

 

On the other hand.  Attempting to shoot Powder Coated bullets, or Un-Lubed bullets, or bullets with Smokeless Lube has given DISMAL results.  The Lube is NOT the fouling.  The fouling is the residue left by the combustion of Black Powder.  That fouling (BP) must be kept soft or your really not gonna have a harmonious experience.

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IF the bullet is properly sized for the bore of the firearm; the burning powder DOES NOT cause the coating on the base of the bullet to melt. Doesn't matter if you are shooting real BP, BP subs or any smokeless powder.  Any melted bullet coating being left behind is caused by gas cutting because the bullet is too small for the bore.

 

Don't believe me, go to a long range match and find a shooter shooting paper patched bullets. Pick up any of the paper patches after they are fired and guess what NONE, ZERO, NADA with show any signs of burning.

 

Why you ask. Its because the paper or plastic base is in contact with the burning gasses for such a short period of time (just a couple milliseconds at most) that not enough heat can be transferred to cause it to melt/burn.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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Okay, I can be more specific:

Ophelia Payne & I have shot Hi-Tek coated .38 cal & .32 bullets with both FFG & FFFG Goex real black. When we used Goex prior to shifting to APP & 777, we ran a patch of moose milk down the rifle & SG barrels every stage, & wiped off the front of the cylinders. Long time black powder guys made fun of us for cleaning between stages.  We found that many don't do any special maintenance during a match.

 

Currently, we use APP with .38 cal Hi-Tek coated bullets, rifle & pistols for me, rifle for Ophelia, & 777 for Ophelia's Hi-Tek coated .32's . We stopped doing any cleaning or maintenance between stages, except shooting an occasional spurt of Ballistol at the chamber & sides of the carriers in the rifles.

 

We use 777 in the Shotguns with no maintenance between stages other than a SG brush. Life is much easier for us without all of the maintenance between stages, & it frees us up to work lots to help with the posse.

 

I know most feel strongly about their procedures, but we shoot a lot, & this works fine for us.

 

And, just to stir the pot, I don't use fillers. I started out using them, & decided to do some testing to see if not using them caused problems. It didn't. We've shot LOTs of matches with all of the above, including EOT. Ophelia is Lady Silver Senior Frontier Cartridge World Champion, 4 time Ga. St. Champion, has been Intl Ladies FC champion & Ladies Top Gun, 3 time SER LSS FC, so these procedures didn't cause her any pain. I only shoot the black stuff for side matches, the Intl BP Championship, & Ga. St. BP championship, so I don't shoot it as much as she does.

 

We shoot every Sat. rain, sleet, snow, or shine, so I'm all about keeping it simple.

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