Since I need to rest...

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Since I apparently am not ready to get back to full time shooting matches or even practicing.

I decided to play with my book again.

 

I like most of my premise, but in reading some of my chapters - I found a number of things that need to change to better the story.

But I expected that, as the items I don't like are part of the reason I set the book aside.

The story was not going where I wanted it to.

But I can fix that.

 

The other thing I noted as I read through my story again was a...

A sanitized story; a vocabulary that reflected modern day PC sensibilities instead of the words, phrasing and attitudes more representative of the American west late 1800's.

 

I am not one to usually go coarse in language. 

There are words and phrases that I and those I associate with dont use in real life.

But the "attitude" in the book doesnt feel right.

 

So tell me dear reader - which is better?

Assuming the story is good either way.

Would you prefer a story that is "reasonably" clean, even if inaccurate to the era.

Or

A story that is accurate but doesnt shy away from being offensive - even to the point of being disturbing judged against 2021 standards?

[Assassin]

 

If there's a narrator, they could use modern language.

Character's could use period correct language.

 

Or, write the entire story both ways.

Sometimes less is more.

[Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428]

I for one do not get offended by words, terms and phrases that may not be ‘pc’ today.  The correct use in a book or movie of “more colorful metaphors” brings the work to life.  If it is a book about Harvard scholars discussing scholarly matters, I would not expect each page to read like a Tarantino screenplay. But, rough and crude language would be correct if depicting those prone to that type of language. 
 

Put me in the group who was not at all shocked or offended by the language in the Deadwood series. 

[Doc Shapiro]

Personally, I am not going to read a story with much corse language.  That series that was on HBO, Deadwood I think it was called.  I watched about 15 minutes of the first episode and shut it off.  The language may have been period correct, but I was unable to focus on the story.  For me, it's the story that's of interest.  Not being "period correct".

[DeaconKC]

I worked around convicted felons for a quarter century. There is nothing I haven't heard. But today I won't bother with a lot of profanity in a tv show, movie or book. Picked up a Louis Lamour novel the other day and he can tell a great story without the language. Worked for Rex Stout too in his Nero Wolfe books.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

For context - my story delves into a fictionalized family of freed slaves that are attacked with only the children surviving.

 

"Rescued" by an aging bounty hunter; the children grow up within and become part of the violent bounty system in a west that hates them for their skin color and fears them for their ability.

 

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I dont intend to write a Tarantino screenplay - but I also dont want to scramble for the thesaurus to find a different word when the "right" word is obvious.

[Griff]

Using the "coarse language" of time would be realistic, and tame by today's standards.  Using today's "coarse language" would be seen as simply bowing to the altar of "shock value".

[DeaconKC]

24 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

For context - my story delves into a fictionalized family of freed slaves that are attacked with only the children surviving.

 

"Rescued" by an aging bounty hunter; the children grow up within and become part of the violent bounty system in a west that hates them for their skin color and fears them for their ability.

 

 

If you are referring to the N word, look at Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn and Nigger Jim. Their friendship was classic and stood defiantly against many of the social mores of the time.

[Assassin]

My friend Chuck Sellier, creator of Grizzly Adams, never used coarse language in any of his productions. He did okay for himself. However, he knew everything he wrote or produced had a family audience. Creeker, what audience are you catering to with your book?

 

[DeaconKC]

2 minutes ago, Assassin said:

My friend Chuck Sellier, creator of Grizzly Adams, never used coarse language in any of his productions. He did okay for himself. However, he knew everything he wrote or produced had a family audience. Creeker, what audience are you catering to with your book?

 

I think this sums it up right here.

[Hoss]

I was also thinking of Huck Finn & Tom Sawyer. American classics. I wouldn’t shy away from the word. Filling it with profanity is something different. 
 

Gus had his “pokes”.  

[twelve mile REB]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

Using the "coarse language" of time would be realistic, and tame by today's standards.  Using today's "coarse language" would be seen as simply bowing to the altar of "shock value".

I believe this is correct.  What would be tolerated today is a far cry from what would be tolerated in the 19th century.  

[Hendo]

I would first find what the course language of the era and region was. I seriously doubt that the series Deadwood was an accurate depiction. Remember, most people were raised by folks with a bible in one hand and a belt in the other. Whether they abided by that later in life, it still was branded to the brain somewhere. 

 

[watab kid]

my humble opinion - 

 

you use what is needed to convey and reinforce the true feeling of what you are trying to say , its not about what the reader expects or wants to see - its about what you are trying to say in the context , im not in any way a PC guy but i do not use certain things in common communication , not appropriate / not used , but i do tend to speak my mind in the terms of the moment and i think you need to look at it in terms of your characters and what you want them to say , as you noted , things were not particularly PC in the past - i like it that way , as long as it is to convey the story not for drama or any kind of "in your face" offence , [theres a better word - i cant think of at the moment]

 

i never want to read a sanitized version of what the author was trying to say/convey , it needs to be real 

 

 

 

 

[Doc Shapiro]

7 minutes ago, watab kid said:

my humble opinion - 

 

you use what is needed to convey and reinforce the true feeling of what you are trying to say , its not about what the reader expects or wants to see - its about what you are trying to say in the context , im not in any way a PC guy but i do not use certain things in common communication , not appropriate / not used , but i do tend to speak my mind in the terms of the moment and i think you need to look at it in terms of your characters and what you want them to say , as you noted , things were not particularly PC in the past - i like it that way , as long as it is to convey the story not for drama or any kind of "in your face" offence , [theres a better word - i cant think of at the moment]

 

i never want to read a sanitized version of what the author was trying to say/convey , it needs to be real 

 

 

 

 

 

This.  Write it for you.  You'll do your best work that way.

[Buckshot Sheridan]

Vulgarity for the sake of vulgarity doesn’t do anything for me, but if it is appropriate to your characters, time place and situation I see no issue with it. On the other hand neutering the language is almost worse in that it comes across as setting the course of events according to the new version of Disney. It just come a down to who your audience is. 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I see no reason for vulgarity or coarseness for shock value.

My mom might read my book.

 

But I also don't want it to read as the "Me Too" movement is my editor.

 

I just want it to sound right if the need for certain language arises - especially when exploring race in a different era.

[Hendo]

9 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I see no reason for vulgarity or coarseness for shock value.

My mom might read my book.

 

But I also don't want it to read as the "Me Too" movement is my editor.

 

I just want it to sound right if the need for certain language arises - especially when exploring race in a different era.

You need to do you. The book is your voice, your style, your creation. Think of the books you pick up to read. Do you have authors you gravitate to? If so, why?

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Write it how YOU want to write it... then, if you are not sure, have a trusted friend read it through and see what they think. Some words ARE appropriate, even though they may be offensive to some (someone will always be offended). Vulgarity for shock sake is not appropriate. Racial words WERE appropriate for that time and commonplace. Write it, you'll know what to do.

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

A story that is accurate but doesnt shy away from being offensive - even to the point of being disturbing judged against 2021 standards?

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

And to be realistic... if yer writing a story involving ex-slaves, someone is going to get bent out of shape about it.

White, black or otherwise.

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

When we were writing our book, (Bucksnort, available on Amazon), my coauthor and I made it a point to keep it clean. To be fair, we weren't writing about anything like you are, but the protagonists were teenage boys, and they can be vulgar. 

If I were writing something like what you are, I would probably use the terminology of the times when necessary, but try not to be so concerned with them as to be overly offensive to today's reader. 

Other posters have mentioned "Deadwood". In articles I read on the making of, it was said that the language in the show was accentuated, both to demonstrate the roughness of the era, and because the language of the era wouldn't be recognized by viewers today. 

Realizing that the term "nigger" will almost certainly HAVE to be used in your book, You might mention in your Forward that the term was frequent and accepted simply as slang at the time, and is not meant to be offensive.

One of the things we did, was that when I would finish a chapter, I would email it to him, then get on the phone and we would read it together, me reading it aloud. When something just didn't sound right, or he wanted some change, we would change it right there, then read it again. Kind of unconventional, but our Editrix said that it needed less editing for content than just about anything else she'd done.   

Good luck.

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

Despite the protestations of the writers and some of the actors, I never believed the language in Deadwood was historically accurate.  I think it was strictly for shock value, and since they were on cable they could do whatever they wanted, and did.  Like some others on here, I self-published a western novel, "Passing Through Kansas," a post Civil War story involving a former Union enlisted man and an un-Reconstructed Confederate guerilla.  Many of my characters cuss, but every other word isn't one of the Deadwood big three.  In fact, those aren't used at all. I don't think it is all that difficult to strike a balance between Deadwood and Mary Poppins.  It's on Amazon. There are a few sample pages that pretty much show how I did it.  Good luck.

[Sawyer]

Write your book the way YOU want to.  If you like the finished product then you have done a good job.  Sales and movie offers will tell you if the public likes it and whether or not the language made them throw it down.  Either way, take pride in knowing you had an idea, the wherewithal to see it through until the end, and the desire to share it with others!  Can’t wait to read it!

[Stump Water]

As has been said, "offensive" in the late 1800s would pale in comparison to 2021.

 

Back then people talked a LOT different than they do today - from the right coast to the left coast.  There was still a lot of Victorian era influence and a lot of colloquial influence.

 

How many people would know what you meant if you offered them a "bait of beans" or suggested they look at all of those "pasture maggots" ?

 

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-slang/

 

If your characters are going to converse true to the period it's about a lot more than whatever "coarse" language might be needed at times.

 

[Yusta B.]

I'm gonna suggest about half way between your listed  options trending a bit to the tamer side. Think Open Range or Lonesome Dove or Roots.

[Raven Law Dog]

I have not yet had the pleasure of reading your work, but let me say this as #1, if you're going to worry about 2021 PC, just go ahead and hang up your pen and get back to shooting! It's not possible to not offend anyone this day and time with speech or pen! Some so called authentic films these days go way overboard with vulgarity marketing a specific audience. When I'm reading a story, I'm all in, I want to be there in the story, making my own movie in my head, I want to feel it and experience the time and place. I don't want it sugar coated and should I not like it, all I have to do is lay it down, pretty simple I think. All the best writers, I think don't let outside influence, influence their writing. I say write it like you feel makes it authentic. If the book captures me and sucks me in, I'll read your sequel! No author is always dead on. Good luck , I admire you for the undertaking, Good luck and I hope to be able to read your work soon!  

[Hendo]

And after all this, we, your editing staff, best get an honorable mention in your acknowledgments. 

[Nasty Newt # 7365]

5 hours ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

Despite the protestations of the writers and some of the actors, I never believed the language in Deadwood was historically accurate.  I think it was strictly for shock value, and since they were on cable they could do whatever they wanted, and did.  Like some others on here, I self-published a western novel, "Passing Through Kansas," a post Civil War story involving a former Union enlisted man and an un-Reconstructed Confederate guerilla.  Many of my characters cuss, but every other word isn't one of the Deadwood big three.  In fact, those aren't used at all. I don't think it is all that difficult to strike a balance between Deadwood and Mary Poppins.  It's on Amazon. There are a few sample pages that pretty much show how I did it.  Good luck.

PS:  I'm amazed you compare writing to resting.  For me it is really hard work.  As the old saying goes, "I don't enjoy writing.  I enjoy having written."

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

21 minutes ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

PS:  I'm amazed you compare writing to resting.  For me it is really hard work.  As the old saying goes, "I don't enjoy writing.  I enjoy having written."

I enjoy the process of creating.

 

After I stepped away from club leadership - I realized the only thing I really missed was the stage writing.

 

But stages and matches are small scale undertakings as compared to a novel.

 

I may soon have other feelings about my creations if they choose to not cooperate or take off on unplanned tangents.

And as I write in a rather free form stream - my characters have been known to end up in places and situations that I did not originally plan for.

 

I have spent more time than I would admit backtracking my writing attempting to figure out when a character went off the rails.

 

 

[watab kid]

often times life tends to tangents , depicting the story you want to tell is more important than any shock value , will be fun seeing how this all works out for you , 

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

58 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I enjoy the process of creating.

my characters have been known to end up in places and situations that I did not originally plan for.

 

 

I'm not that creative, my coauthor is the creative one. He comes up with the ideas, and I make them work. While the writing can be hard, the result is great. 

Since our characters are based on us, they never went too far afield, but sometimes the story just kind of writes itself, and "where did THAT come from?" happens.