Reloading Top Gun Hulls

[Caboose]

Anyone successfully reloading Top Gun Hulls with LNLR results. What wad, powder etc are you using?

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

I found these on the Internet several years ago:

For the Federal TOP GUN cheapie, I sent an email to FEDERAL. They sent me a booklet with the reloading data for their TOP GUN, Field and Target, Federal Premium Wing-Shot, and Federal Game Shock...all with the paper basewad.

The load for the TOP GUN shells is this:

Shot Weight Oz. Drams Eqiv. Velocity (f.p.s. approx.) Primer Wad Powder Charge Weight Grains Pressure P.S.I.
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 Red Dot 19 9300
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 Green Dot 21 8000
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 Unique 23 7700
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 700-X 18 1/2 10300
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 PB 22 9100
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 WST 21 10600

Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=79746#ixzz1TewgSHlL

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The load for the TOP GUN shells is this:

Shot Weight Oz. Drams Eqiv. Velocity (f.p.s. approx.) Primer Wad Powder Charge Weight Grains Pressure P.S.I.
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 Red Dot 19 9300
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 Green Dot 21 8000
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 Unique 23 7700
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 700-X 18 1/2 10300
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 PB 22 9100
1 1/8 2 3/4 1200 Fed 209A 12S3 WST 21 10600

Read more: http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=79746#ixzz1PBpdp5YE

 

 Here are two loads I've used for years. Data was originally checked against Alliant's 1996 guide. The only substitution was the wads, since using a "reduced" powder charge left too much room in the hull and resulted in dished crimps.

 

Top Gun, Wally World Federal Special Hulls, Federal 209A primers, 1 oz shot with 18.2 grains of Red Dot/Promo Federal 12S0 wad or clone. 1200 fps or so as a result. For 1 1/8 oz, 18.5 grains of Red Dot/Promo Federal 12S3 wads or clones. 1180 fps or so. The pressures were likely well within bounds, since the listed maximum loads were considerably higher. Velocities were checked with my chrongraphs.

 

A fellow named Curt who goes by grnberetcj has some data for 700-X powder that seemed reasonable and I had verified it in an older Dupont manual.

 

I have a considerable amount of data for these hulls from different sources. They are reloadable, but I do not load them more than twice. The primer pockets tend to loosen after the first firing or two. If I load them twice, I will sometimes use an oversized primer for the second loading instead of the Federal 209A. The Rio G-600 works fairly well and was designed for large straight tube hulls. Most sources will tell you that you can use Gold Medal hull data for these hulls. If you do, I would stay away from the top pressure loads and not tempt fate.

 

I have also seen a few failures where the tube pulls out from the base when using slower powders like Universal Clays or Unique. It's not a common issue, but it has happened.

 

One word of caution with these hulls. Be sure that the base wads never got wet. If the basewad looks swollen or enlarged, toss the hull.

 

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From: grnberetcj

Email:

Date: Thu, Mar 10, 2011 - 04:13 PM ET

Website Address:

 

Great hull to reload (and as stated above, discard any that got wet).

 

My recipes that I use and have used for a number of years with very good success:

 

1 oz. of hard shot, 17 grs. of 700X, Federal 12S0 (or clone) wad, Federal 209A primer. 1200 fps and very soft. I use this for singles and both shots of doubles.

 

1-1/8 oz. of hard shot, 19.5 grs. of 700X, 12S3 wad (or clone), 209A primer. 1250 fps does not thump you like a Win Silver Bullet. I use this for long yardage 'caps.

 

As I have a constant supply of hulls, I reload once and toss.

 

As stated above, it's a good hull to reload, just use the proper spec's and don't blow anything up except the clay birds.

 

Curt

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Yer probably asking about smokeless.

Used Top Guns are the hulls I shoot about 90% of the time, but mine are loaded with black powder & clay buster "windjammer" wads.

Shoot 'em once & pitch 'em in the trash.

I have tubs of them -- folks who buy those 100-packs save them & gift them to me.

--Dawg

[Chantry]

What PD said about the primer pockets.  I had a bunch of once fired Federal hulls (probably the Wal Mart 100 rd value pack hulls) and Winchester primers would fall out of the primer pocket on maybe 10-20% of the hulls.

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The currently available Top Guns are quite a bit different than what was mentioned above.  They now have a thin white plastic basewad, which looks like a Lifesaver candy when viewed from above.   So the load data for the old Top Guns with fiber type base wads won't normally be very useful.

 

Like almost all  Federal shotshells, they are a straight-wall hull.  Also similar to the common European hulls (such as Fiocchi, Rio and others).   All these straight wall hulls have more internal volume than Remington hulls and the , so going light on the powder and shot means you need a really big shot cup or very bulky powder to take up the extra volume and let you crimp well (to avoid the sunken crimp).

 

Rio was contracted to make some Federal hulls in the 2000s.   They put in the larger diameter Rio primers (most Euro primers are slightly larger diameter than American shotgun primers).  This left those Federal hulls with a loose primer pocket, and Winchester 209s are famous for falling out of them.

 

I have not found a really good VERY LIGHT load for the current top guns.  I have a one ounce load that is light (as far as S/G target loads go), but not yet anything like a Winchester Low Noise Low Recoil.   Here's that load:

 

(current maroon-color ribbed, brass-plated base cover, white plastic base wad) Top Gun  12 gauge hull

Winchester 209 or CCI 209 primer (and Cheddites will work in a pinch)

Clays, Clay Dot or Red Dot powder -  17.5 grains

Claybuster CB 6100-12 wad - a new wad made for high-volume straight-wall hulls, and holding 1 ounce of shot - kind of a neon green color

1 ounce shot

 

(This load is shown in the loading data sheet that Claybuster's places in this wad's bag, as the lightest load they recommend with Clays or Red Dot powders).

 

This will crimp OK if you don't put much seating pressure on the wad.    Be aware that the maroon Top Gun hulls have a base cover (commonly called "the brass") that is VERY thin steel with a brass plating on it.   If you don't center the hull precisely on the decapping/resizing station of your loading press, you may have five or ten hulls out of a hundred that crumple (tear) the head cover, making the shell unusable because it won't fit in chambers or shuck properly.

 

Other plastic shotshell wads intended for even lighter shot payloads, but having a longer than normal wad length, have not come onto the market yet, AFAIK.

 

So, if you can live with this one ounce load, have at it.

 

If you want something closer to Featherlite loads, you may find it easier to either stack up fiber type wads to fill the case properly, or trim off the crimp petals and apply a roll crimp to whatever typical load you have used in a Federal hull, but putting the over-shot card low enough down in the hull.   You're on your own there, I don't load fiber wads or have roll-crimping equipment.

 

The bottom line is that Federal loading data currently available from Alliant or Hodgdon (or old Lyman data) doesn't fit the new Top Gun hull very well.  The several Remington hulls (STS, Nitro, Gun Club, Clay and Field) and the Winchester AA hulls are quite a bit smaller internal volume and thus they are much easier to make light cowboy loads with.

 

good luck, if you decide you MUST figure out how to make a soft shotshell load in the Top Gun hulls - GJ

 

 

 

 

 

[Caboose]

Thanks Garrison Joe, great information. I do intend to roll crimp and only use once for Wild Bunch.