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getting a Hawken ready for harvest


El CupAJoe

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This year I'll attempt to take my second ever deer during muzzleloader season using a TC Hawken that was gifted to me.  I didn't think that I would like the gun at first, but when shouldering it, it seems like it was custom fit for me.  I'll be working up a load for it this week end using a 50 cal 360 minie mold I purchase from Lee and some home made sizers to get the diameter where I want them.  My question is, I'd like to add a traditional sling, but I'm pretty sure sling swivels are a modern invention and I was wondering if any of you had pictures of how your guns might be slung using more traditional methods when not equipped with the hardware for a sling.

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There were sling swivels on muskets pre US Revolutionary War. However I bet the mountain man Hawkins probably had something tied onto them if they wanted to sling the rifle.

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Well, Joe... as a matter of fact...!  ^_^

 

I bought mine on a Monday morning back in '72, right after seeing Jeremiah Johnson the previous Saturday - it has a 4-digit serial number.  :)

 

Anyway, a couple years later I decided it needed a sling.  I intended to carry it afield and, since I wasn't worried about marauding Crow warriors, did not want to keep it in my hand full time.

 

After pondering at length, I decided that since it was a modern "representation" and not an exact replica I was going to go for function over form.  To this end, I acquired simple stud type swivel mounts.  I drilled and screwed the one into the stock, but the "fore-end" was a bit more challenging. 

 

I studied on it for a while, and wanted to try something different - the rear thimble.

 

The thimbles are anchored to the under-barrel rib by Allen-headed screws.  I drilled the mount to allow passage of an Allen wrench, then drilled and tapped the existing screw access hole in the thimble and screwed the stud into place, after grinding the threaded shaft down to clear the ramrod.  To fortify it I added a dab of silver solder.  I could've done a neater job, but it was late and I was headed out early the next morning for opening day.

 

Uncle Mike's sling swivels just clip right on.  At any rate, it's served well since 1974, and has hung from a shoulder over many, many, many miles.  ;)   

 

Resized_20210903_115555.jpeg.f18bf9806fefa14944d4a4ca1c741fa4.jpeg   

 

 

Resized_20210903_115603.jpeg.901a97b5f1f86c28413563217631ac77.jpeg

 

Resized_20210903_115621.jpeg.343ef98229dd6569d2aa88f28960dec6.jpeg

 

Resized_20210903_120930.thumb.jpeg.f53f1860d10e42a37fac447d40de8eac.jpeg

 

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I have a sling made by The Leatherman:
https://www.accu-riser.com/brands/The-Leatherman.html

 

I don’t find slings listed, but it looks like the woven straps on their possibles/hunting bags.  Classy stuff.

 

You might contact them and see if they can accommodate you.

 

8E5BB169-3ECE-425E-885D-0FA03ADF683E.thumb.jpeg.fc2fa218385f5eff98a0153672205a9f.jpeg

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Joe, please let us know how those Minie balls work out.

 

My favorite load was a 370 gr Maxi-Ball ahead of 70 gr 3f. 

 

http://namlhunt.com/uploads/3/4/2/2/34220093/tc-maxi-ball-2_orig.jpg

 

Still would be, but here in California we are now prohibited from using lead in the field - instead, we have to use solid copper projectiles (250 gr) with sabots.  At best a mediocre substitute.   :(

 

 

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4 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

  I'll be working up a load for it this week end using a 50 cal 360 minie mold I purchase from Lee and some home made sizers to get the diameter where I want them.


By the way, if those Minies don’t behave, my TC shoots patched round balls just dandy.  Mine is a .54 and settles in with 85 grains of 2F.

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4 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Well, Joe... as a matter of fact...!  ^_^

 

I bought mine on a Monday morning back in '72, right after seeing Jeremiah Johnson the previous Saturday - it has a 4-digit serial number.  :)

 

Anyway, a couple years later I decided it needed a sling.  I intended to carry it afield and, since I wasn't worried about marauding Crow warriors, did not want to keep it in my hand full time.

 

After pondering at length, I decided that since it was a modern "representation" and not an exact replica I was going to go for function over form.  To this end, I acquired simple stud type swivel mounts.  I drilled and screwed the one into the stock, but the "fore-end" was a bit more challenging. 

 

I studied on it for a while, and wanted to try something different - the rear thimble.

 

The thimbles are anchored to the under-barrel rib by Allen-headed screws.  I drilled the mount to allow passage of an Allen wrench, then drilled and tapped the existing screw access hole in the thimble and screwed the stud into place, after grinding the threaded shaft down to clear the ramrod.  To fortify it I added a dab of silver solder.  I could've done a neater job, but it was late and I was headed out early the next morning for opening day.

 

Uncle Mike's sling swivels just clip right on.  At any rate, it's served well since 1974, and has hung from a shoulder over many, many, many miles.  ;)   

 

Resized_20210903_115555.jpeg.f18bf9806fefa14944d4a4ca1c741fa4.jpeg   

 

 

Resized_20210903_115603.jpeg.901a97b5f1f86c28413563217631ac77.jpeg

 

Resized_20210903_115621.jpeg.343ef98229dd6569d2aa88f28960dec6.jpeg

 

Resized_20210903_120930.thumb.jpeg.f53f1860d10e42a37fac447d40de8eac.jpeg

 

Got mine about the end of January of 1973 after seeing JJ at a drive in just outside the main gaTe at Camp Lejeune.  Kept it for seven years and gave it to my son when I switched up to a Lyman Greet Plains rifle.

 

He had it about a year when one of his "best friends" stole it and sold it someone.

 

Mighty fine rifle but TC doesn't make anything I'd have any more.

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11 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Got mine about the end of January of 1973 after seeing JJ at a drive in just outside the main gaTe at Camp Lejeune.  Kept it for seven years and gave it to my son when I switched up to a Lyman Greet Plains rifle.

 

He had it about a year when one of his "best friends" stole it and sold it someone.

 

Mighty fine rifle but TC doesn't make anything I'd have any more.

My boy shot his first deer with my TV Renegade. Gave it to him right there. I got a Great Plains for myself but I sure like the Renegade better. I've seen some in the Classifieds but didn't get it done. Next time.

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In a 50 i shoot 60gr goex under a hornady sabot .45 xtp hollow point. Or a .490 round ball pillow tick patched lubed with 1/2 beeswax and 1/2 olive oil. 

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2 hours ago, Michigan Slim said:

My boy shot his first deer with my TV Renegade. Gave it to him right there. I got a Great Plains for myself but I sure like the Renegade better. I've seen some in the Classifieds but didn't get it done. Next time.


The TC Renegade had the same barrel, lock and trigger as the TC Hawken, but the stock and final polishing was not as pretty.  If you get frustrated trying to find a Renegade, a TC Hawken is just a Renegade in Sunday clothes!! 

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18 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Joe, please let us know how those Minie balls work out.

 

My favorite load was a 370 gr Maxi-Ball ahead of 70 gr 3f. 

 

http://namlhunt.com/uploads/3/4/2/2/34220093/tc-maxi-ball-2_orig.jpg

 

Still would be, but here in California we are now prohibited from using lead in the field - instead, we have to use solid copper projectiles (250 gr) with sabots.  At best a mediocre substitute.   :(

 

 

Go to ebay and buy a chunk of Bismuth, then cast up your balls from that. It will work. I did it with 38-55 bullets and it is California legal, and there is NO WAY that any Game Warden can or will check to see if the balls are lead or bismuth. How do I know? I went through the process of querying the Dept of F&G in California to find out. When it was all done, the idiots listed me on their web page as a manufacturer of Non-Lead ammunition, and posted my phone number. I was flooded with phone calls until I changed my phone number. Last time I looked I was still listed. 

 

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35 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:


The TC Renegade had the same barrel, lock and trigger as the TC Hawken, but the stock and final polishing was not as pretty.  If you get frustrated trying to find a Renegade, a TC Hawken is just a Renegade in Sunday clothes!! 

You bet. My dad and I each got a Renegade for Christmas when I was fifteen. They met the budget. Kaya got her first BP deer with it too. 

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I bought my .50 calibre Hawken in '72 as well. 

At that time, bringing something in to Canada from the US wasn't an issue, (Except at the Canadian border, where they just wanted the Duty!)

 

I found the 350 grain Maxie Ball shot best for mine and I have taken a number of deer with it, during the BP season here in December.

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22 hours ago, The Blarney Kid said:

Go to Dixie Gunworks website and search for "muzzleloader sling".

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. 

 

On 9/3/2021 at 4:59 PM, J-BAR #18287 said:


By the way, if those Minies don’t behave, my TC shoots patched round balls just dandy.  Mine is a .54 and settles in with 85 grains of 2F.

The guy who gave it to me says it doesn't like rb.  It was printing sabots within an inch offhand at 30 yards offhand, but they were shooting way to high for the sights.  My buddy said his uncle had used minies effectively at one time so I'm hopeful. For what I pay for lead, I can make 20 minies for the price of one sabot bullet. 

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With a BP rifle you have to work up a load. Slug the barrel see what sise it is and you'll know what size ball or bullet to use. 

Sling can be looped on the ends around barrel and wrist or attached like a butpad if you don't want to drill or solder fittings on. Leather, finger or loom woven, or just a rope all work.

 

Track of the Wolf, as stated Dixie, Smoke and fire company. Go down the rabbit hole of re enacting subtler and supplies. 

 

You can stock your powder bag with all kinds of gewgaws. You do have a bag right? And a horn? 2 stars and a sling could be a matched set.

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18 hours ago, El CupAJoe said:

 

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. 

 

The guy who gave it to me says it doesn't like rb.  It was printing sabots within an inch offhand at 30 yards offhand, but they were shooting way to high for the sights.  My buddy said his uncle had used minies effectively at one time so I'm hopeful. For what I pay for lead, I can make 20 minies for the price of one sabot bullet. 

You might want to try some rounds balls with a tight fitting  patch and plenty of lube. Maybe the guy didn't load it right or just couldn't shoot straight. I have a .50 Hawken flintlock (I think it's a CVA) with nice deep riflings, and it shoots balls great. Don't make much sense a Hawken wouldn't like round balls.

My 2 cents,

JHC

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The 1:48 rifling is a compromise. 1:60 is for round balls and 1:36 or faster for conicals and sabots. They will still shoot the balls well if time is taken to find the load it likes. My TC would cloverleaf RBs but never conicals. Took a few trips to find the right load. 

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I have an old Traditions L/H Hawken , the load I settled on is 85 gn of RS , under a .490 rb with a ,018 patch 

 

 or the same charge under a Buff. bullet co ballette (hallow base ) both shoot same point of aim 

 

 have won lots if turkey shoot with that combo , she has a 1-48 twist 

 

  CB 

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On 9/3/2021 at 3:41 PM, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

Joe, please let us know how those Minie balls work out.

looks like I need some more time to figure the load out.  I was in a bit of a rush yesterday, but I tried 60, 70 and 90 grain loads trying to get them to group no success.  pictured are as cast, second pic is lubed unsized on left and sized to .496 on the right.  

20210906_134129[1].jpg

20210907_092117[1].jpg

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I would go with even lower powder charges to get the group you want.  A projectile that heavy is going to plow all the way through a deer at whatever range you hit it.  You will not need heavy powder charges to achieve penetration.  Go down to 45 grains and work up 5 grains at a time.  Swab the bore after every two shots.  It’s time consuming but having confidence in your load is worth it when hunting.

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