Buckshot Bear Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 You've circled the wagons.....the bullets and arrows are starting to hit......you have a choice of grabbing a lever action rifle in .357 or .45LC. What do you choose? Which caliber would offer the best reach and stopping power to win the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 .357, don't have any .45 bullets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 28, 2021 Author Share Posted August 28, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: .357, don't have any .45 bullets... There's pretty much unlimited .357 and .45LC ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: There's pretty much unlimited .357 and .45LC ammo. Not in my wagon train. Still grabbing .357. I don't like shooting. 45 out of a rifle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singin' Sue 71615 Posted August 28, 2021 Share Posted August 28, 2021 I can run and load that .357 a lot longer than a .45! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 The .45 may be a better horse killer than the .357. Horses are the larger target. Kill the horses, and the injuns are easier to shoot. And since horses are so valuable to them, once they figure out you are concentrating on the horses, they may give up the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 fire up the wireless , give NOZ a call , have him send a fire mission CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Real 357s and 45s, or "cowboy" 357s and 45s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Wilson Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 .357, I don't shoot .45 LC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 6 minutes ago, Alpo said: Real 357s and 45s, or "cowboy" 357s and 45s? Full house factory loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Arizona Gunfighter said: .357, I don't shoot .45 LC The point of the question was though....which caliber would offer the best reach and stopping power to win the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 .357's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 44-40 for me but to answer your question .45 LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 29 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: The point of the question was though....which caliber would offer the best reach and stopping power to win the fight. Oh, this was a serious question and not an exercise to choose calibers for S.A.S.S.? In that case your only option is .44-40 or .38-40 because lever rifles didn't exist in either .357 or .45 at the time of wagon trains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Oh, this was a serious question No it was just a fun question to pose to pass a freezing cold Sunday morning here waiting for lunchtime and a roast leg of lamb to cook in Covid lockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 If they are far enough out to have to worry about each calibers "reach", I'd just let them keep circling till they tire out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 21 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: No it was just a fun question to pose to pass a freezing cold Sunday morning here waiting for lunchtime and a roast leg of lamb to cook in Covid lockdown. Oh yeah, it’s that time of year “down under”! I’ll take a nice fat .45 over a .357. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: No it was just a fun question to pose to pass a freezing cold Sunday morning here waiting for lunchtime and a roast leg of lamb to cook in Covid lockdown. Freezing cold. Dang! That sounds pretty good at the moment, waiting for the air conditioner guy to call me back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Well, forcing myself to ignore the fact that 45 Colt rifles did not exist when Indians would attack wagon trains, and 357 did not exist period, in rifle or pistol, and answer in accordance to the rules of the game - 1892 Winchester saddle ring carbine, 357 magnum, 158 grain jacketed soft point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 In my opinion and experience factory 357 Magnum from a lever action rifle is a much more accurate round further out than .45 Colt factory ammo. I would definitely take the .357 over .45 Colt in this circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Arizona Gunfighter said: .357, I don't shoot .45 LC 45 Colt...I don't shoot 357...It don't start with a 4... Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 We've got ya' all by the proverbials, might as well give up now...I'm with the one's on the outside of the wagons...and a couple of 'braves have just sneeked in an' stole all ya' ammo..yep your toasted !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Sir, I do believe the peyote has fully kicked in. You’re hallucinatin’! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassnetguy50 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 7 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said: .357, don't have any .45 bullets... 6 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said: Oh, this was a serious question and not an exercise to choose calibers for S.A.S.S.? In that case your only option is .44-40 or .38-40 because lever rifles didn't exist in either .357 or .45 at the time of wagon trains. 45 Colt. I find it more plausible that someone modified a rifle rather than customized a rifle and invented a round. I'd grab both rifles and shoot whichever ammo was within arms reach at that moment. If both ammos were handy, 45 because it is more likely to go through assailant 1 and into assailant 2. Yes, heavy 45 recoil wears on the body more than 357, but we'd have heavy winter coats on that freezing Sunday morning. Since we are optimally supplied in this hypothetical, I chose to be optimally young so recoil wouldn't phase me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Since neither the .357 Magnum existed then and there were no 45 Colt rifles then, I'm voting for the third choice. The M14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Bear Posted August 29, 2021 Author Share Posted August 29, 2021 Lol..... Thanks for a fun thread all and as it's fantasy I'll say I'd call in some laser guided munitions From reading some ballistic charts, if I'm reading them right, the 357 is flatter shooting and has more energy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 42 minutes ago, Buckshot Bear said: Lol..... Thanks for a fun thread all and as it's fantasy I'll say I'd call in some laser guided munitions From reading some ballistic charts, if I'm reading them right, the 357 is flatter shooting and has more energy? And the .357 bullet tumbles in the body so a hit in the leg may result in the round tumbling and coursing up through the body and tearing out vital organs and leaving soccer ball sized wound cavities in the torso and killing instantly! Oh, wait!…That’s a different round from a different time and different gun that some call “the poodle shooter”… ”Never Mind!” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Dantankerous said: Since neither the .357 Magnum existed then and there were no 45 Colt rifles then, I'm voting for the third choice. The M14. If it's MY wagon train, I'm breaking out the 81mm mortar. Lobbing in rounds from the inside if the circle. Or if you're going to go that far, you might as well call in the helicopter gunships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 8 hours ago, sassnetguy50 said: 45 Colt. I find it more plausible that someone modified a rifle rather than customized a rifle and invented a round It would not be the simple matter of customizing a rifle. Pre-1900 45 Colt barely had a rim. That's the reason there were no rifles chambered in 45 Colt. There was nothing for the extractor to grab hold of to pull the empty shell out. It was not until the invention of solid head cases, where they could machine an extractor groove into them, that the possibility of a 45 Colt rifle existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassnetguy50 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 @Alpo What are the two cutaway brass cases in that picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassnetguy50 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Buckshot Bear said: Lol..... Thanks for a fun thread all and as it's fantasy I'll say I'd call in some laser guided munitions From reading some ballistic charts, if I'm reading them right, the 357 is flatter shooting and has more energy? In standard form, yes. In +p form, the 45 Colt Ruger loads will use the buttplate of a 92 to firmly inform you of your age. 45: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=38 357: https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=396 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said: @Alpo What are the two cutaway brass cases in that picture? The top one? A period 'hidden' primer system that was common in the 1870's ( I can't remember the name of it at the moment, the morning coffee hasn't kicked in yet). Note the really red color of the cases, too. It took years to get the brass alloy right and copper or copper heavy alloy cases were common. They were really brittle and it wasn't unusual for the case head to get ripped off on extraction in certain guns. Trapdoors were notorious for it and it was so common that the Army designed, made and issued a broken shell extraction tool so the troops didn't have to try to pry it out with a pocket knife while under fire. That was documented to be an issue all the way back to the Wagon Box Fight of the Red Cloud War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassnetguy50 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 @Alpo No, the picture with two cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 If you're in a wagon train headed West, you're probably not armed with the latest and greatest cartridge guns. More likely, you are carrying pre-Civil War civilian guns or Civil War issue/surplus. Why? Moving is expensive today and it was no different back then. If anything, it was even more expensive back then. The guns mentioned above were either already owned and familiar or cheap to get. Why spend a month or more salary on a new Winchester '73 when you have Grandpa's Mississippi rifle or Uncle Caleb's Hawken that you've grown up shooting or you can pick up a Starr carbine (or one of the other secondary designs used in the CW and there was a bunch of them) for two week's pay instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuteye John SASS#24774 Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said: @Alpo No, the picture with two cases. The left is a modern solid case head and the right one is a drawn balloon head case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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