Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

"Two-handed" SASS-legal shooting "style"?


Recommended Posts

This is all with reference to the SASS Shooters handbook (Version 25.1, January 2021).

 

On page 25 of the Shooters Handbook, it says: "Slip-hammering is not the same as fanning and is legal."

 

But in what shooting style (not category) is slip-hammering legal?  Slip-hammering is most often done with the thumb of the offhand while supporting the strong hand with the offhand -- a two-handed style of shooting a revolver in which the offhand touches both the strong hand and the revolver.

 

The Handbook (p. 6) states that in both Duelist (and Double Duelist) Style: "The revolver, hand, or shooting arm may not be touched by the offhand except when resolving a malfunctioning revolver problem or when transferring the revolver from one hand to the other."  Slip-hammering involves touching the revolver with the thumb of the offhand, so it it definitely and clearly verboten in Duelist and Double Duelist.   

 

About Gunfighter Style the Handbook (p. 6) likewise says: "Revolvers must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported, one right-handed and the other left-handed."  Slip-hammering involves two-handed cocking, and often two-handed holding technique.  So, again, slip-hammering is clearly not allowed in the Gunfighter Style. 

 

Now, the Handbook (p. 45) also contains exactly one occurrence of the term "Free Style" and says the "shooter has the option of shooting Two-handed style or Duelist style."  There is no explanation anywhere in the Handbook of what is meant by "Two-handed style" nor in which costume or any other categories it is permissible.  The only other occurrence of the term is a page 6 as follows: "SHOOTING STYLE CATEGORIES: Shooting Style categories allow participants to compete with others utilizing the same
shooting style (e.g., shooting revolvers one-handed instead of two-handed)."  However, immediately following this sentence are descriptions of ONLY the Duelist and Gunfighter Styles of shooting, without a single word about "Two-handed Style."

 

SO, my questions, after all of that, are:

(1) EXACTLY what is "Two-handed Style" -- are there any SASS rules, guidelines, descriptions, etc. of any kind?

(2) In what SASS-sanctioned shooting categories (whether costume, age-based, etc.) is Two-handed Style permitted?  And where does any SASS document say so?

.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't mean to be rude, but have you been to many matches? Seen shooters actually shooting?

If the SHB says there are restrictions for your one-handed (either Duelist or Gunfighter) shooting, then you must comply with those, otherwise...

"two-handed" is accepted, legal, normal or whatever you would want to call it. (and yes, slip-hammering is legal for any of that two-handed shooting).

I'm pretty sure the writers figured that if they spelled out was WAS NOT two-handed, everything else would be. Make sense? It really is that simple.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

From what I understand “slip hammering” is keeping the trigger depressed while cocking the hammer with the other hand. I’m a duelist and I can’t do it although maybe some with big hands would be able to as a duelist. Anyone??

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I grip my left pistol slightly different than my right pistol so I have "slip hammered" with the left hand on occasion especially on a dump target. I have seen at least one other duelist do it also.

Edited by Sixgun Seamus
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You can slip hammer two handed, easily, and one handed, if you've the grip strength and thumb reach.

Both are legal.

For the difference between "slip hammering" and "fanning" consult the glossary section of the Handbook.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Sixgun Seamus said:

I grip my left pistol slightly different than my right pistol so I have "slip hammered" with the left hand on occasion especially on a dump target. I have seen at least one other duelist so it also.

GAMER!!!!

  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

From what I understand “slip hammering” is keeping the trigger depressed while cocking the hammer with the other hand. I’m a duelist and I can’t do it although maybe some with big hands would be able to as a duelist. Anyone??

I know a couple of duelist that slip hammer

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any style can slip hammer. One handed or two.   Although it's a habit I would leave alone until your more experienced.   It's a good skill to have in your bag,   when used correctly.

 

 Two hand can be used in any category that isn't strictly  One handed.  Gf, duelist,  classic cowboy,  frontiersman.  So any age based category is good to go

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

This is all with reference to the SASS Shooters handbook (Version 25.1, January 2021).

...

...

(2) In what SASS-sanctioned shooting categories (whether costume, age-based, etc.) is Two-handed Style permitted?  And where does any SASS document say so?.

 

In SECTION 2 - SHOOTING CATEGORIES (SHB pp. 5-10) each category description lists the allowed/mandatory shooting styles.

"...any SASS legal shooting style..." would include "Two-handed Style"
 

"Revolvers may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style – EXCEPT Gunfighter"

"Only duelist style or double duelist style may be used"

"Only Gunfighter style or Double Duelist style may be used."
"Revolvers must be shot Duelist or Double Duelist style. See Duelist description for required shooting technique."
"Revolvers may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style, at the shooters discretion."

"Revolvers may be shot two handed or one handed (Duelist style) in Frontier Cartridge category but only one handed in Frontier Cartridge Duelist category."

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
edit txt
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’ve always shot 2 handed. At first I did not slip-hammer. Then I started slip hammering double taps only. Now I’m a full-time slip-hammerer. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

With all due respect, some of the replies are clearly wrong.  Others reflect a misunderstanding of what I’m talking about, for which I take full responsibility as I must not have been clear enough.  And yes, I’ve shot a bunch and been to a bunch of matches, and I’ve asked some seriously experienced pards about this and they agree that there seems to be no clear answer.  That’s why I’m asking here, ok?  I currently shoot in the B-Western Category and am planning to shoot in Classic Cowboy.  I like the two-handed slip-hammering method of shooting my revolvers, and wanted to figure out if I could use the same technique in Classic Cowboy.  (Spoiler alert: NO.)

First, to clear up some apparent confusion, when I refer to “two-handed” shooting I do not mean shooting with a gun in each hand; I mean shooting one gun with both hands on it, with the offhand supporting the strong hand, or the gun, or both, and sometimes the thumb of the offhand cocking the gun while the strong hand fires it, as well – in other words, what I call two-handed slip-hammering.

It cannot be seriously maintained that two-handed slip hammering is allowed in either the Duelist/Double Duelist Style or the Gunfighter Style of shooting.  As I said above, the Handbook (p. 6) states that in both Duelist (and Double Duelist) Style: "The revolver, hand, or shooting arm may not be touched by the offhand except when resolving a malfunctioning revolver problem or when transferring the revolver from one hand to the other."  At least two-handed slip-hammering involves touching the revolver with the thumb of the offhand when there's no malfunction at all, so it it definitely and clearly prohibited when shooting Duelist and Double Duelist Style.  About Gunfighter Style the Handbook (p. 6) likewise says: "Revolvers must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported, one right-handed and the other left-handed."  At least two-handed slip-hammering involves cocking with one hand and firing with the other, so this sort of slip-hammering is clearly not allowed in the Gunfighter Style.

The Classic Cowboy / Cowgirl Category requires that revolvers must be shot Duelist or Double Duelist Style.  Thus, two-handed slip-hammering is clearly not SASS-legal when shooting in the Classic Cowboy / Cowgirl Category.  There's my answer to my original question.  But in figuring this out, I opened Pandora's Box, it seems.

Bypassing all Blackpowder shooting for a moment, we see that the B-Western/Lady B-Western Category says that revolvers “may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style.”  The same is true for Age Based Categories (except that Gunfighter Style may not be used).  This is all well and good, but WHERE IS ANY LIST OF “SASS LEGAL SHOOTING STYLES”?  No one has pointed to one yet, so I have to conclude that there’s no such list anywhere.  That being the case, here’s my best attempt at one:

SASS LEGAL SHOOTING STYLES

1. Duelist / Double Duelist (defined in the Handbook)

2. Gunfighter (also defined in the Handbook)

3. Two-handed Style (not defined anywhere in the Handbook, but presumed to mean that the offhand can be used any way the shooter desires, whether to support the strong hand, or grip the gun, or grip both the strong hand and the gun, and/or cock the hammer)

4. Free Style (which the handbook defines as simply either Duelist Style or the otherwise undefined Two-handed Style, at the shooter’s discretion)

5. Every other way of shooting one can imagine that doesn’t violate the 170-degree rule or any other SASS rules

Does this make more sense now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

With all due respect, some of the replies are clearly wrong.  Others reflect a misunderstanding of what I’m talking about, for which I take full responsibility as I must not have been clear enough.  And yes, I’ve shot a bunch and been to a bunch of matches, and I’ve asked some seriously experienced pards about this and they agree that there seems to be no clear answer.  That’s why I’m asking here, ok?  I currently shoot in the B-Western Category and am planning to shoot in Classic Cowboy.  I like the two-handed slip-hammering method of shooting my revolvers, and wanted to figure out if I could use the same technique in Classic Cowboy.  (Spoiler alert: NO.)

First, to clear up some apparent confusion, when I refer to “two-handed” shooting I do not mean shooting with a gun in each hand; I mean shooting one gun with both hands on it, with the offhand supporting the strong hand, or the gun, or both, and sometimes the thumb of the offhand cocking the gun while the strong hand fires it, as well – in other words, what I call two-handed slip-hammering.

It cannot be seriously maintained that two-handed slip hammering is allowed in either the Duelist/Double Duelist Style or the Gunfighter Style of shooting.  As I said above, the Handbook (p. 6) states that in both Duelist (and Double Duelist) Style: "The revolver, hand, or shooting arm may not be touched by the offhand except when resolving a malfunctioning revolver problem or when transferring the revolver from one hand to the other."  At least two-handed slip-hammering involves touching the revolver with the thumb of the offhand when there's no malfunction at all, so it it definitely and clearly prohibited when shooting Duelist and Double Duelist Style.  About Gunfighter Style the Handbook (p. 6) likewise says: "Revolvers must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported, one right-handed and the other left-handed."  At least two-handed slip-hammering involves cocking with one hand and firing with the other, so this sort of slip-hammering is clearly not allowed in the Gunfighter Style.

The Classic Cowboy / Cowgirl Category requires that revolvers must be shot Duelist or Double Duelist Style.  Thus, two-handed slip-hammering is clearly not SASS-legal when shooting in the Classic Cowboy / Cowgirl Category.  There's my answer to my original question.  But in figuring this out, I opened Pandora's Box, it seems.

Bypassing all Blackpowder shooting for a moment, we see that the B-Western/Lady B-Western Category says that revolvers “may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style.”  The same is true for Age Based Categories (except that Gunfighter Style may not be used).  This is all well and good, but WHERE IS ANY LIST OF “SASS LEGAL SHOOTING STYLES”?  No one has pointed to one yet, so I have to conclude that there’s no such list anywhere.  That being the case, here’s my best attempt at one:

SASS LEGAL SHOOTING STYLES

1. Duelist / Double Duelist (defined in the Handbook)

2. Gunfighter (also defined in the Handbook)

3. Two-handed Style (not defined anywhere in the Handbook, but presumed to mean that the offhand can be used any way the shooter desires, whether to support the strong hand, or grip the gun, or grip both the strong hand and the gun, and/or cock the hammer)

4. Free Style (which the handbook defines as simply either Duelist Style or the otherwise undefined Two-handed Style, at the shooter’s discretion)

5. Every other way of shooting one can imagine that doesn’t violate the 170-degree rule or any other SASS rules

Does this make more sense now?

You seem to HAVE your answers.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Singin' Sue, it is still just a SWAG about what the Handbook actually means by Two-Handed Style, at least.  And I guess any shooting style imaginable that is "NOT SASS-ILLEGAL" by some specific rule is allowed in B-Western/Lady B-Western Category, and in the Age-Based Categories too (except Gunfighter), but it sure would be nice if the Handbook simply said so!  And the reason for the existence of "Free Style" which is mentioned exactly once is even more mysterious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Shooting Style Categories are listed on page 6 of the Shooter's Handbook.

 

The introduction says "Shooting style categories allow participants to compete with others utilizing the same shooting style (e.g. shooting revolvers one handed rather than two handed). It then describes the two shooting categories that differ from shooting revolvers two handed i.e. Duelist and Gunfighter. 

 

Two handed means what it says, using two hands.  Res ipsa loquitur.

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Captain Bill Burt said:

Shooting Style Categories are listed on page 6 of the Shooter's Handbook.

 

The introduction says "Shooting style categories allow participants to compete with others utilizing the same shooting style (e.g. shooting revolvers one handed rather than two handed). It then describes the two shooting categories that differ from shooting revolvers two handed i.e. Duelist and Gunfighter. 

Understood.  The Handbook tells us what is NOT allowed for those two specific Shooting Styles.  It does not tell us anywhere what IS allowed in any other shooting style, except that we do know that shooting two handed (two hands on one gun) is allowed and slip-hammering, as opposed to fanning, is also allowed, as long as you are not shooting either of those two specific styles (Duelist and Gunfighter) or the costume category (Classic Cowboy) that prohibit them.  It is such a bass-ackwards way of saying: "Shoot any ways you like, doing anything you feel like doing that doesn't violate any safety rules -- THEY'RE ALL SASS-LEGAL SHOOTING STYLES, UNLESS you are shooting Duelist, Double Duelist, or Gunfighter Style, or a Costume Category or Blackpowder subcategory that requires shooting in one of these Shooting Styles."  There is NO DEFINITION of the phrase "SASS-LEGAL SHOOTING STYLE" in the Handbook that repeatedly uses that phrase; if the definition is so simple and obvious, the Handbook should just say it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Understood.  The Handbook tells us what is NOT allowed for those two specific Shooting Styles.  It does not tell us anywhere what IS allowed in any other shooting style, except that we do know that shooting two handed (two hands on one gun) is allowed and slip-hammering, as opposed to fanning, is also allowed, as long as you are not shooting either of those two specific styles (Duelist and Gunfighter) or the costume category (Classic Cowboy) that prohibit them.  It is such a bass-ackwards way of saying: "Shoot any ways you like, doing anything you feel like doing that doesn't violate any safety rules -- THEY'RE ALL SASS-LEGAL SHOOTING STYLES, UNLESS you are shooting Duelist, Double Duelist, or Gunfighter Style, or a Costume Category or Blackpowder subcategory that requires shooting in one of these Shooting Styles."  There is NO DEFINITION of the phrase "SASS-LEGAL SHOOTING STYLE" in the Handbook that repeatedly uses that phrase; if the definition is so simple and obvious, the Handbook should just say it.

 

2 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Maybe it was easier stating what you could NOT do rather than all of what you COULD do. Just a guess.

Anyway, I think you got it. Don't think you're going to get an edit of all the possible ways to shoot two-handed... :D

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Nostrum Damus SASS #110702 said:

Well, Singin' Sue, it is still just a SWAG about what the Handbook actually means by Two-Handed Style, at least.  And I guess any shooting style imaginable that is "NOT SASS-ILLEGAL" by some specific rule is allowed in B-Western/Lady B-Western Category, and in the Age-Based Categories too (except Gunfighter), but it sure would be nice if the Handbook simply said so!  And the reason for the existence of "Free Style" which is mentioned exactly once is even more mysterious.

You seem to be overthinking it.

Get with Texas Jack Daniel...he won't lead you wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Anvil Al #59168 said:

Don't make things more complicated than they need to be. 

^This - the rules work, thousands understand the rule....for hands on explanation visit your local club. 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do truly appreciate folks taking the time to comment and discuss this.  Like I said, I figured out the answer to my basic question: if I want to shoot in Classic Cowboy Category, I cannot slip-hammer.  So the Senior Category is what it will be whenever I don't feel like B-Western!  Thanks again to all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.