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SASS HQ moving to Indiana


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On 8/25/2021 at 8:49 AM, Yul Lose said:

Their old HQ location in New Mexico was fairly remote and with the reception that EOT got this year being in Indiana probably played into their decision making. Good luck SASS, Misty and crew. I think you made the right choice.

Are you saying that most hard core SASS shooters are Yankees? Ruh Roh!!!!

What was kind of funny to me is what we hear a lot in the westerns...."Headed Back East?"

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On 8/29/2021 at 12:36 AM, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Please don't take my inquiries wrongly.  I don't personally believe or know anybody else who believes the dues paid to SASS are in any way unreasonable.

 

In the interest of avoiding sharing my unpopular opinion, I will share that SASS dues are more (nearly double) the other shooting organization(s) of which I'm a member (but they don't give a metal badge to every member, either).  I have been told, but do not know, that SASS is set up as a for-profit business, whereas all the others I know about are nonprofits that depend almost completely on volunteers to have events that keep the organizations going. I will keep renewing my membership as long as I'm shooting, but I do hope SASS continues to control costs in the future and there's no further growth in dues.

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I just wanna know, just exactly where DDD and a few others get off, thinking SASS "OWES" them a full disclosure of ANYTHING??  Anybody??

 

Frankly, it none of your business.  After all, it's not YOUR business.  Your in no way a "share holder."  You simply get to be a "member" via your dues.  There is no accountability due you.  Get over yourself.  

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On 8/27/2021 at 6:24 PM, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Don't hold yer breath.  It's a SECRET.  Don't ask why it's a secret.  That's a secret too.  

 

It's a private, for-profit company.  They can and will privately do whatever they want to do.  You and I have the recourse of any customer of any business.  

 

You can refer to my thread - it is pinned at the top of the wire for a more thorough explanation/response to this question. 

 

NOthing secret about this. Secret wouldn't have involved my posting an announcement and pictures in excitement about the upcoming relocation. Secret wouldn't be my spending hours reading through all of these wire threads and comments- on top of the over 30K folks reached on Facebook and trying to engage and answer questions as much as possible. 

 

The cloak and dagger attitude is long gone in SASS leadership.  I've always prided myself on being transparent and communicative to SASS membership. If I may suggest, if you have an outright concern, please reach out to me directly- you don't get very far putting something on the wire and then being upset if I dont happen across it to address your concern. 

 

Misty Moonshine

misty@sassnet.com

 

Now, I'm back to building demo and treasure huntin'. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Misty Moonshine said:

 

...Misty Moonshine

misty@sassnet.com

 

Now, I'm back to building demo and treasure huntin'. 

 

 

Let me know what the work schedule is, I'd like to come and help y'all 

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1 minute ago, Matthew Duncan said:

Let me know what the work schedule is, I'd like to come and help y'all 

 

I have been and likely will continue to be there pretty much all day everyday from around 9AM - 6PM (except this Wednesday)- however, I'll be heading back to NM on the 7th - but I know the AMAZING PPR crew here, led by CC Top-  have a work weekend planned for Sept. 11 -12.  Anything beyond that is not planned at this time. 

 

Start time is likely around 9AM -  bring drinking water, I know they'll/we'll have snacks and lunch for the crew arranged. If you think you can make it, just shoot me an email (misty@sassnet.com) so we can keep track of the numbers to ensure we take care of everyone. 

 

It's kind of hard to miss in Akron, but the address is 102 E. Rochester St. 

 

 Would appreciate all the hands we can get- and, dare I say - It's FUN! :)

 

Misty 

 

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2 hours ago, Misty Moonshine said:

 

I have been and likely will continue to be there pretty much all day everyday from around 9AM - 6PM (except this Wednesday)- however, I'll be heading back to NM on the 7th - but I know the AMAZING PPR crew here, led by CC Top-  have a work weekend planned for Sept. 11 -12.  Anything beyond that is not planned at this time. 

 

Start time is likely around 9AM -  bring drinking water, I know they'll/we'll have snacks and lunch for the crew arranged. If you think you can make it, just shoot me an email (misty@sassnet.com) so we can keep track of the numbers to ensure we take care of everyone. 

 

It's kind of hard to miss in Akron, but the address is 102 E. Rochester St. 

 

 Would appreciate all the hands we can get- and, dare I say - It's FUN! :)

 

Misty 

 

Wish I could just pop over too and help.

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3 hours ago, Misty Moonshine said:

 

You can refer to my thread - it is pinned at the top of the wire for a more thorough explanation/response to this question. 

 

NOthing secret about this. Secret wouldn't have involved my posting an announcement and pictures in excitement about the upcoming relocation. Secret wouldn't be my spending hours reading through all of these wire threads and comments- on top of the over 30K folks reached on Facebook and trying to engage and answer questions as much as possible. 

 

The cloak and dagger attitude is long gone in SASS leadership.  I've always prided myself on being transparent and communicative to SASS membership. If I may suggest, if you have an outright concern, please reach out to me directly- you don't get very far putting something on the wire and then being upset if I dont happen across it to address your concern. 

 

Misty Moonshine

misty@sassnet.com

 

Now, I'm back to building demo and treasure huntin'. 

 

 

Fair enough, Misty.  The announcement you made about the move was quite complete, and while it didn't describe the reason for the move, most of us can readily understand why you and others could want a break from Moriarty.    My apologies if I implied otherwise.

 

My posted comment was mostly in reference to secretive data, like the number of active SASS members.  To my knowledge, that is not made public.  There has been speculation here on the Wire in the psst, and I really do hear a lot of our people wondering out loud just how many of us there are.  It would be useful to know member numbers and trends for our club-level long-term facilities outlay planning, plus it would save us some embarassment in efforts at promotion.  When media folks ask how many of us there are, we have to cleverly dodge the question, rather than describe our level of popularity.

 

I do recognize that SASS is under no obligation to provide that kind of information, but it surely would be useful to have at times. 

 

Please forgive my earlier offensiveness.  Good luck with your move and new digs.  Hope they work out well for you.

 

DDD

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How many members...usually any magazine that accepts paid advertising will disclose readership. I would imagine the advertising department at the Chronical would tell you this. Both print and electronic. An advertiser needs to know his cost per eyeballs.

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10 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I just wanna know, just exactly where DDD and a few others get off, thinking SASS "OWES" them a full disclosure of ANYTHING??  Anybody??

 

Frankly, it none of your business.  After all, it's not YOUR business.  Your in no way a "share holder."  You simply get to be a "member" via your dues.  There is no accountability due you.  Get over yourself.  

SINCE YOU ASKED, here is where "we get off thinking" as you described -- the rationale for an expectation of dues paying members having a voice and being provided information:

 

SASS' business structure is quite unusual.  I've researched about a hundred organizations who, like SASS, sell memberships to individuals and clubs and 

charge annual dues to both.

 These are large outfits like BASS, NRA,  Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Friends of the NRA, FFA, Quail Unlimited, Ducks Unlimited, Deer Unlimited,  American Hereford Association, Society of American Foresters, American Fisheries Society, 4H, The Wildlife Society,  and many other large entities that have thousands of members and which function as organizations with supporting businesses.

 

None of them are set up as private, for-profit businesses.  All of them are managed in some level of public or member-benefit, non-profit status.  There is not one of them who does not share their portfolio or financial statements either publicly or with their dues paying "members".  Not one of them makes important decisions without voting representation from member clubs or individual members themselves.  That is the norm of operation for member supported organizations, nationwide.   SASS is the only example I can find that does not share their financial reports and gives members no voice or representation in important business decisions.  

 

I do realize the "apples and oranges" nature of that comparison --- that SASS is what it is, and all of those others are what they are.  I also accept that it is SASS's right to make those choices, in and of itself, based upon how they chose to set themselves up.  But logic dictates that excluding dues-paying members from business decisions or information is not a good way to market an organization. 

 

As members, we all want SASS and CAS to succeed and grow.  We don't expect to be consulted individually on every expenditure made.   But including representation on major decisions from our elected TGs does not seem unwieldy or particularly unreasonable.   I would personally like to  see that. 

 

You are absolutely correct that under current structures, we don't have any rights to expect anything.  But that doesn't mean we can't make requests.  And it doesn't mean we can't create alternatives if we are not satisfied.   

 

  I am told by knowledgeable members that not long ago, SASS was considering and/or intending to shift to a member-owned, non-profit status.  Obviously that did not occur.  I don't know who made those decisions, when, or why (and I don't particularly need to know.  It simply didn't happen)  

 

Im responding truthfully here only because you asked the question.  I had let this whole issue drop yesterday.  So don't shoot the messenger.   Like I said, SASS is what it is.   I'll keep paying dues as long as there are no better alternatives out there.  Most others will do the same, I expect.   

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@Dusty Devil Dale I like to think we've achieved a level of mutual respect where we can respectfully agree to disagree, which is pretty much where I land with respect to your prior statement.  

 

Unfortunately I do see it as containing some veiled threats, which I find distasteful, but you're within your rights to make statements like 'create alternatives if we're not satisfied' and 'paying dues as long as there are no better alternatives out there.'


To me those are a somewhat passive aggressive attempt to communicate that you'll tolerate the current structure because you have no other alternatives, but if suitable alternatives arise you'll be leaving SASS because you disagree with the way it is run.  Perhaps I interpreted that incorrectly though.

 

I also take issue with an assumption you made.  Specifically "logic dictates that excluding dues paying members....."  I like to think I'm pretty logical, and my logic does not bring me to the same conclusion as yours does.   So, that's your opinion, but it isn't an established fact, nor is it something that 'logic dictates'.

 

Finally, dues paying members have been included.  There is a new board and guess what, it's made up of dues paying members.  Members who over the years have demonstrated not only a deep commitment to SASS, but have also demonstrated considerable expertise in running SASS events successfully.  When I saw who the new members were I was struck by the obvious forethought that went into selecting them and the fact that all of them had unique abilities and experience that clearly demonstrated they were the kind of people we need making decisions about the future of SASS. 

 

I respect the Wild Bunch, without them we wouldn't have this game.  The new Board is exactly what this game needs.  What it doesn't need is carping from the sidelines and second guessing decisions that quite frankly most of us don't have the experience or the background information to fully appreciate.

 

If this doesn't work, we lose a governing body for our game, but Misty loses her job and income.  I believe that her motivations and ours are closely aligned and I therefore rest easy knowing she's doing her best which I suspect is plenty good enough to get the job done right. 

 

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I think folks with ideas should try them with their local club/s. Put in the work necessary to expose more people to your product. Use social media, YouTube, gun show displays etc... There are plenty of people in clubs throughout the country working hard to get people interested in SASS shooting. I'm sure if membership grows from your ideas/work at your club SASS will notice.

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

@Dusty Devil Dale I like to think we've achieved a level of mutual respect where we can respectfully agree to disagree, which is pretty much where I land with respect to your prior statement.  

 

Unfortunately I do see it as containing some veiled threats, which I find distasteful, but you're within your rights to make statements like 'create alternatives if we're not satisfied' and 'paying dues as long as there are no better alternatives out there.'


To me those are a somewhat passive aggressive attempt to communicate that you'll tolerate the current structure because you have no other alternatives, but if suitable alternatives arise you'll be leaving SASS because you disagree with the way it is run.  Perhaps I interpreted that incorrectly though.

 

I also take issue with an assumption you made.  Specifically "logic dictates that excluding dues paying members....."  I like to think I'm pretty logical, and my logic does not bring me to the same conclusion as yours does.   So, that's your opinion, but it isn't an established fact, nor is it something that 'logic dictates'.

 

Finally, dues paying members have been included.  There is a new board and guess what, it's made up of dues paying members.  Members who over the years have demonstrated not only a deep commitment to SASS, but have also demonstrated considerable expertise in running SASS events successfully.  When I saw who the new members were I was struck by the obvious forethought that went into selecting them and the fact that all of them had unique abilities and experience that clearly demonstrated they were the kind of people we need making decisions about the future of SASS. 

 

I respect the Wild Bunch, without them we wouldn't have this game.  The new Board is exactly what this game needs.  What it doesn't need is carping from the sidelines and second guessing decisions that quite frankly most of us don't have the experience or the background information to fully appreciate.

 

If this doesn't work, we lose a governing body for our game, but Misty loses her job and income.  I believe that her motivations and ours are closely aligned and I therefore rest easy knowing she's doing her best which I suspect is plenty good enough to get the job done right. 

 

You win!!! Very much enjoyed our conversation at EOT. Hopefully see you at the regional in October. 

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8 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

You win!!! Very much enjoyed our conversation at EOT. Hopefully see you at the regional in October. 

Thanks Deuce!  We definitely need to continue our chat at the Regional, perhaps over some drinks from Barkeep Casey!

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Ya gots two choices: 1. keep payin yer dues and deal with it.

                                      2. pack yer toys and go play elsewhere.

 

I choose #1, thank you Misty, keep up the great work. :D

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

@Dusty Devil Dale I like to think we've achieved a level of mutual respect where we can respectfully agree to disagree, which is pretty much where I land with respect to your prior statement.  

 

Unfortunately I do see it as containing some veiled threats, which I find distasteful, but you're within your rights to make statements like 'create alternatives if we're not satisfied' and 'paying dues as long as there are no better alternatives out there.'


To me those are a somewhat passive aggressive attempt to communicate that you'll tolerate the current structure because you have no other alternatives, but if suitable alternatives arise you'll be leaving SASS because you disagree with the way it is run.  Perhaps I interpreted that incorrectly though.

 

I also take issue with an assumption you made.  Specifically "logic dictates that excluding dues paying members....."  I like to think I'm pretty logical, and my logic does not bring me to the same conclusion as yours does.   So, that's your opinion, but it isn't an established fact, nor is it something that 'logic dictates'.

 

Finally, dues paying members have been included.  There is a new board and guess what, it's made up of dues paying members.  Members who over the years have demonstrated not only a deep commitment to SASS, but have also demonstrated considerable expertise in running SASS events successfully.  When I saw who the new members were I was struck by the obvious forethought that went into selecting them and the fact that all of them had unique abilities and experience that clearly demonstrated they were the kind of people we need making decisions about the future of SASS. 

 

I respect the Wild Bunch, without them we wouldn't have this game.  The new Board is exactly what this game needs.  What it doesn't need is carping from the sidelines and second guessing decisions that quite frankly most of us don't have the experience or the background information to fully appreciate.

 

If this doesn't work, we lose a governing body for our game, but Misty loses her job and income.  I believe that her motivations and ours are closely aligned and I therefore rest easy knowing she's doing her best which I suspect is plenty good enough to get the job done right. 

 

Thank you, Captain.

I don't disagree on any of your points, except that I doubt I would leave SASS, even with alternatives.  The dues are miniscule, IMO, and the Wire alone is worth that cost; especially when you need advice about the game or guns.  

  Given alternatives, I'd probably join all of them if they advance and appreciate our game.  

A big part of my intent was just to raise the issues that I hear among our ranks, and hope their board is responsive.

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Congrats to SASS finding a new home in a really cool looking building. I'm excited for them.

 

As far as SASS business decisions, it's nobodies business but theirs.  As we all know, it's impossible to please 100% of people in any organization. I have faith in Misty and the new board. They will make decisions based on what's good for SASS as a whole, not the few who think they know what's best. 

 

Thank you Misty, Wild Bunch and the New Board. Your hard work does not go unnoticed by the majority of us. 

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Wow, I can't believe how much has changed!   With two little ones, and COVID on top of it, I think it's been 18 months since I logged in.  The electronic SASS bulletin today shocked me with the move, so I moseyed on over to get more info.

At first I was confused, since I'd missed the word on the FR sale/move/closure.  Then I figured out EoT had already been moved, and kicked myself in the backside for not taking a trip while I could.   After that I spent a fair bit o' time learnin' about the move to IN, followed by a lost 20 mins of my day reading through ~ 2 years of FB posts.  :D

That's a heckuva' lot of new info, but I can say for a fact that 3 things still haven't changed:

  1. I really miss shooting with y'all!
  2. Folks are still b1tchin' up a storm about SASS not letting 'em read their diaries
  3. I *still* can't figure out how to check to see iffn' I actually remembered to renew my membership for the year!!!

Missing out on FR is my own problem, I'll get over it.  Them moving to IN brings 'em closer to me here in MD, only time will tell if that means anything.  The only thing I really care about is iffn' it helps SASS stay financially fit, so we can continue complaining about everything in another 40 years on the SASS Holo-forum.

 

Other than that, good to see there's still a lively crew around here.   Even when I can't participate, I'm thinking of y'all.

@Misty Moonshine and the rest of her crew: I don't know what one non-really-participating pard in MD can do to help, but let us know if there's anything that you think of!!

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