Easy BP question

[DeaconKC]

I have been told both ways, so here goes nuthin! Will powder coated bullets work with genuine Black Powder?

[Singin' Sue 71615]

3 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

I have been told both ways, so here goes nuthin! Will powder coated bullets work with genuine Black Powder?

Hmmmm...

I believe so, but still need the bullet lube?

Kid Rich???

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Powder coated or HyTek finish?

[DeaconKC]

12 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Powder coated or HyTek finish?

I am not aware of the differences in these two.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

2 minutes ago, DeaconKC said:

I am not aware of the differences in these two.

Me either.

So Phantom, I use Bustin' Head coated...will they work with 'real' black?

Would I need the bp 'lube' on them?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

5 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Me either.

So Phantom, I use Bustin' Head coated...will they work with 'real' black?

Would I need the bp 'lube' on them?

No idea.

 

I shoot Hi-Tek coated. No lube.

 

Chey-Cast uses this coating as do others.

 

Phantom

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

You are going to get lots of different answers,  in my experience no coated bullets do not work well with black powder.  I have tried molly coated that left an almost cement type crud. 

I am sure some people have been able to get them to work but I have never been able to. 

Rafe 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Just now, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

You are going to get lots of different answers,  in my experience no coated bullets do not work well with black powder.  I have tried molly coated that left an almost cement type crud. 

I am sure some people have been able to get them to work but I have never been able to. 

Rafe 

Been shooting Hi-Tek coated bullets since 2017 when I went to FC / FCD.

 

They work great. 

 

Phantom

[Tequila Shooter]

25 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Been shooting Hi-Tek coated bullets since 2017 when I went to FC / FCD.

 

They work great. 

 

Phantom

 

Are you also using a grease cookie?

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 minute ago, Tequila Shooter said:

 

Are you also using a grease cookie?

Oh hell no.

 

I don't do anything different loading wise then I did shooting smokeless.

 

Phantom

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I have used Bear Creek moly-coat bullets with real BP, and never any issue.

OLG 

[Tyrel Cody]

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Been shooting Hi-Tek coated bullets since 2017 when I went to FC / FCD.

 

They work great. 

 

Phantom

But are you using Real Black Powder in your rifle?

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 minute ago, Tyrel Cody said:

But are you using Real Black Powder in your rifle?

 

 

Sometimes...sometimes not.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Deacon, I know some very fast (real) BP shooters using the hi-tek coated bullets with no lube.  But at least some of them are just doing this in pistols.  Not enough accuracy loss to matter.  In rifle, some are doing it and swabbing the bore every so often.  Again, close targets of our current game don't care.  I have shot some of them in my pistols with no lube in the bullet, but I still squirt a blob of butter-flavored Crisco over the first two rounds at the loading table, same as I do with my unlubed regular lead pistol loads.  Easy enough to do.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Squirt a little Ballistol down the barrel after each stage...takes seconds.

 

Phantom

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

From what I've seen almost all of the commericial bullet outfits are using th Hi-tek coated vs powder coating. Shooters who cast their own bullets are more split between the two.

 

Regular cast bullets or coated lead can be used with black powder if you do some maintenance during the match. Spraying ballistol or moose milk, running boresnakes through your barrels between stages etc.

If you want to shoot a days worth of stages with real black powder and no maintenance during the match, cast bullets that hold enough black powder lube are your best bet.

[Canoga Joe]

I powder coat round ball bullets for my cap guns, if only to reduce lead exposure from constant handling, loaded atop a lubed felt wad over real black powder (Goex or Swiss 3f). Never any issues; everything works the same, but with much cleaner hands when I’m done shooting. By the way, nobody sells coated round ball, so gotta diy. More info here if interested:

 

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:43 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Been shooting Hi-Tek coated bullets since 2017 when I went to FC / FCD.

 

They work great. 

 

Phantom

Agree.

I use Cimarron bullets and I believe the same Hi-Tek P-coating.  No other lube is used for any of the four weights of bullets I shoot,  and all are accurate with my 2F-Trip 7 load. KIS, same load for all four weights and same seater setting..

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

15 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Oh hell no.

 

I don't do anything different loading wise then I did shooting smokeless.

 

Phantom

Absolutely not, just a different powder, Clays or T72F

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

Shoot the bullets you have. But like Phantom said,  squirt a little ballistol  down the barrels every so often. 

[Sedalia Dave]

Question for those shooting real BP and not a sub; do you do ANYTHING between stages? 
 By anything I mean squirt ballistol, moose milk, windex, water, wet patch, bore snake, ect, or Put any lube of any kind on bullets. 
 

 

[DeaconKC]

Thank you all! As I am just loading for a Trapdoor Springfield for long range, the concerns about the gun running "volley fire" style is not there. I will give the coated bullets a try as they are available now!

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Funny, as no Real BP only through rifles with no extra effort chimed in. Yes, they will work. But not without extra effort to keep the BP from baking onto your barrel and ruining accuracy, if you shoot any decent amount of them. That is my experience.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Tried coated bullets.  Once.  Results were terrible.  BP needs lube.

 

Coated bullets with APP on the other hand, work right dandy.  Lube not required. 

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

2 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

Thank you all! As I am just loading for a Trapdoor Springfield for long range, the concerns about the gun running "volley fire" style is not there. I will give the coated bullets a try as they are available now!

 

Most of the advice here about successfully using coated bullets with black powder is for use in SASS main match stages. If you're talking about long range rifle you're probably not going to have the same level of success. Plus this discussion keeps bouncing back and forth between using the coated bullets with real black powder and subs like triple 7. It creates confusion between shooting in frontier cartridge categories where both real BP and subs are allowed vs shooting real BP.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

8 hours ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

Agree.

I use Cimarron and I believe same Hi-Tek P-coating.  No other lube used and any of the four weights I use are accurate with my 2F-Trip 7 load.

That's the bullets that I'm using and yep, the coating is Hi-Tec.

 

[Kid Rich]

If you use unlubed bullets with real BP in a TD you will learn what lead mining is all about and how to do it.

kR

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

6 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Tried coated bullets.  Once.  Results were terrible.  BP needs lube.

 

Coated bullets with APP on the other hand, work right dandy.  Lube not required. 

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

14 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

So I use Hi-Tec with no lube and BP... Does this mean I'm a loser?

 

[Bull Skinner]

Hi-Tek coated bullets will work with BP subs like APP and 777, but real black powder, especially in a rifle requires a SPG type lube or you get hard baked on fouling unless you use Ballistol or some such lube between stages like Phantom does. 

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

5 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

 

Most of the advice here about successfully using coated bullets with black powder is for use in SASS main match stages. If you're talking about long range rifle you're probably not going to have the same level of success. Plus this discussion keeps bouncing back and forth between using the coated bullets with real black powder and subs like triple 7. It creates confusion between shooting in frontier cartridge categories where both real BP and subs are allowed vs shooting real BP.

Correct.  my input was for 38 special and yes, WITH SUB.

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

With APP or Blackmz I use bear creek moly bullets, with real black I use my own black powder lube bullets. I'm to lazy to swab between every stage. Again I know folks that can use coated bullets with success I just never have. You might want to try. For long range I would not use a coated bullet with real black.

Rafe 

[Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L]

10 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

Thank you all! As I am just loading for a Trapdoor Springfield for long range, the concerns about the gun running "volley fire" style is not there. I will give the coated bullets a try as they are available now!

 

You did not state up front you were talking about long range shooting so everyone was providing answers based on shooting a regular match. Long range is a little different than regular sass distances. Plus there are different ideas of what long distance is based on the available distances of local ranges.

[Sedalia Dave]

10 hours ago, Springfield Slim SASS #24733 said:

Funny, as no Real BP only through rifles with no extra effort chimed in. Yes, they will work. But not without extra effort to keep the BP from baking onto your barrel and ruining accuracy, if you shoot any decent amount of them. That is my experience.

 

 

Mine as well. I can shoot APP and coated bullets 6 stages a day for 3 days doing nothing other than wiping down the cylinder faces at the end of each day and not suffer any issues; Accuracy or otherwise.

 

As to my original question...

Kinda what I thought;  yes you can use coated bullets with real BP but you do have to mitigate the fouling between stages. Even pistols need some attention between stages.

 

I have some Black Dawg Cartridge Company rounds ( 38, 357, and 44-40) loaded with real BP and out of my pistols and rifles with 20" barrels shoot six stages no issues. No squirting anything down the barrels no swabs nada and hit 8" pistol targets at 10 yards and 24X18 rifle targets at 50 yards easy peasy.

However increase the barrel length of the rifle to 24 inches and if I don't run a wet patch through the rifle barrel between stages I'll easily miss 1/2 the rifle targets on the second stage. The bullets run out of lube at the 21 to 22 inch mark. I can feel it when I pull the patch though.

[Sedalia Dave]

11 hours ago, DeaconKC said:

Thank you all! As I am just loading for a Trapdoor Springfield for long range, the concerns about the gun running "volley fire" style is not there. I will give the coated bullets a try as they are available now!

 

Powder coated bullets are not suitable for use with real BP for long range rifle rounds. The BPCR crowd experimented with them briefly and quickly abandoned them.

At close in sass distances with targets that are huge you can get away with it with a little extra maintenance. At longer ranges second shot accuracy will noticeably suffer unless you swab the barrel between shots.