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You Make the Call...


Jackalope

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The east Tennessee weather is sunny and 80-ish degrees just prior to the shooting match.  The forecast for the rest of the day shows a "chance of pop-up showers, high of 92 degrees and humid".   There are 20 people signed up to shoot six stages.  Seven or eight of these folks have at least some experience as a timer operator and has been a posse leader before.  Three of them have gone on the walk-through.  Of the remaining shooters, one is a frontiersman, one has never tried cowboy shooting before, but he's seen it on YouTube and one is a current world champion shooter.

 

Do you split into two posses of ten?  Do you have one posse of twenty?

 

You make the call.

 

Jackalope

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My vote would be to split, put the new shooter and the Frontiersman on different posses and if you can make the new shooter show he can safely handle his guns safely before the match starts.

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I would split to two posses.  You have the people to cover essential tasks, plus enough to pick brass and cover the ULT.  Two posses will be done much earlier before the weather extremes get too bad-- assuming a morning start.   With one large posse and +- 40 min stages, people will be standing around sweating in the heat humidity, waiting for their turn.   

Others will have different views, I am sure.  This morning we shot one posse of 13.  We had more than enough to cover tasking, and finished the 5 stages at 10:45 AM. 

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First, I would want to be on the posse with the champ just or the opportunity to watch.

 

If it is already 80 at 9AM and the high is forecast a 92... And humid. And popups are more likely as the temperature rises...

 

Split.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

... With one large posse and +- 40 min stages, people will be standing around sweating in the heat humidity, waiting for their turn.   

Others will have different views, I am sure.

It is different in the winter here, when it might be 42 at 9AM with a high of 72. In that case, don't split. It's a great day that keeps getting better as the sun rises.

 

 

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Depends on how many are capable of posse chores.  If everyone is capable of spotting (I know some people that do not spot due to poor eyesight/hearing), at least 2 people willing to pick brass, and 2 to run the timer, then the best option is to split into 2 posses. 

 

After the stage is read and given a large enough loading table have everyone load their rifles and pistols. Everyone leaves their shotgun either in a vertical rack or in their carts. The Frontiersman will have time to reload and the new guy can be mentored. 

 

After shooting and guns are cleared have everyone put them in their cart and immediately come back to do posse chores. All other tasks wait till after the stage is over.

 

Now you don't have to constantly pause because there is no one to take over posse chores. You have 6 people doing posse chores, ( TO, 3 spotters, Unloading table, Brass Picker) 1 Shooter, 1 unloading their guns, 1 on deck and one floater.

 

Take extra time between stages to let people get a drink, refill bullet blocks, swab SG chambers, gauge shotgun shells, sort empty brass and pick their noses.

 

This only works when you have people that can take direction and stay on task. Have just one person that drops the ball and you are left with a bunch of people standing around and not enough workers.

 

Explain the above at the shooters meeting. If everyone cannot agree to the above conditions then 1 large posse is the only viable solution.

 

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I MD a match a small group once a month that makes the above work flawlessly every month. I also shoot with another club that makes small posses a pleasure to shoot on because everyone knows what to do and steps up to do posse chores.

 

Done it with a few as 5 shooters. Takes more time between shooters and between stages but the end result is we are done shooting before it gets too hot. If we had 1 large posse we would all roast in the sun. 

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49 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

...Take extra time between stages to let people get a drink, refill bullet blocks, swab SG chambers, gauge shotgun shells, sort empty brass and pick their noses...

 

Public service announcement: wash hands before picking nose (lead, ya know). 

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43 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Run one posse.

 

Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal.

 

Phantom

 

The meds I'm on don't allow me to spend much time in the heat.  I get heat exhaustion really easy.  It ain't related to hydration.  So for me, split into 2. 

 

 

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Seems like we frequently have this happen at our monthly match. About 1/2 want to split, other 1/2 want one big posse.  I’ve heard shooters on both sides mutter….I may go home if they dont/do split. This very thing creates the most controversy in our club. 
 

what’s really crazy is one club I’ve shot at split into 3 posses at 27 shooters! 

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I think a posse of ten is too short. In a perfect world the number 10 works but I do not live in a perfect world. I think 12-14 shooters on a posse is a better fit. I shoot Frontiersman and watch the ULT for about 2-3 shooters and then help out where needed before I shoot again. In a as ready shooting order I try to go first to not hold up anyone. Just the view from my saddle.

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If the reasoning for two posse's is speed,  you need a shooter, 3 spotters, a TO, an unloading table person, someone unloading, and two loaders. That's nine. I think 10 cuts it too close. And I was there. And nobody was goofing off.

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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Depends on how many are capable of posse chores.  If everyone is capable of spotting (I know some people that do not spot due to poor eyesight/hearing), at least 2 people willing to pick brass, and 2 to run the timer, then the best option is to split into 2 posses. 

 

After the stage is read and given a large enough loading table have everyone load their rifles and pistols. Everyone leaves their shotgun either in a vertical rack or in their carts. The Frontiersman will have time to reload and the new guy can be mentored. 

 

After shooting and guns are cleared have everyone put them in their cart and immediately come back to do posse chores. All other tasks wait till after the stage is over.

 

Now you don't have to constantly pause because there is no one to take over posse chores. You have 6 people doing posse chores, ( TO, 3 spotters, Unloading table, Brass Picker) 1 Shooter, 1 unloading their guns, 1 on deck and one floater.

 

Take extra time between stages to let people get a drink, refill bullet blocks, swab SG chambers, gauge shotgun shells, sort empty brass and pick their noses.

 

This only works when you have people that can take direction and stay on task. Have just one person that drops the ball and you are left with a bunch of people standing around and not enough workers.

 

Explain the above at the shooters meeting. If everyone cannot agree to the above conditions then 1 large posse is the only viable solution.

 

Don't forget score keepers

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2 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

It is different in the winter here, when it might be 42 at 9AM with a high of 72. In that case, don't split. It's a great day that keeps getting better as the sun rises.

 

 

Agree.   

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Run one posse.

 

Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal.

 

Phantom

What he sez:excl:

OL

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Scorekeeper and spotting can be combined.  Most of the time seems that they don't for some reason.  Brass pickers can also spot, but their picking job goes better if they are able to watch where the shooter's brass goes.  Having each shooter check the next shooter at the unloading table eliminates a permanent person there.

 

Some people don't want to spot or feel they can't do it properly, so that can be an issue in a small posse.

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Omigosh! I'd do something completely different than all y'all  and we'd be home in the air conditioning before y'all make it to stage six. ;)

 

Do one big posse, BUT split the posse as evenly as possible into two groups. Group A shoots while group B does EVERY posse chore. After everyone on group A is finished, roles are switched and group B shoots while Group A works.  All they have to think about while shooting is shooting etc...  Everybody is happy because they never fell pressured and the match goes really fast.

I didn't invent t this. I'm kinda new. But the cowboys I did learn this from down there in SC and GA, they're smart fellas.

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43 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

One posse. Most likely, if you split into two 10s, some folks will never stop workin'. Ask me how I know.

 

I'd argue that some don't ever stop working regardless of posse size.

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10 is really not enough for a posse in my experiences. I'd run one and we have at 21 0r 22 even.

 

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12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Run one posse.

 

Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal.

 

Phantom

What Phantom said. 10 in a posse means continuous work for everyone. 90 degree's, high humidity, six stages, and primarily older folks is not a good mix. Heat gets to a couple of pards and they have to get to shade and rest means twice as much work for some of the rest of the folks.

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Thanks for all your replies.  I know if Widder and Branchwater Jack had been there, the decision would have been much easier!  I recall a similar thread recently about preferred posse size and I'm pretty sure nobody believed that either 10 or 20 was the optimum number, but that was the choice of the day for us.

We opted for two groups of ten.  In the course of the morning, we managed to stay very close to our norm of 2 1/2 minutes per shooter.  We did not get in a rush, but there was no goofing off either.  In some instances we had to pull double-duty, the timer operator had to reset shotgun targets occasionally and write the scores down.  A few times when a shooter was detained behind the line by a nature call or whatever, the brass picker or ULT person doubled as a spotter.  We started shooting around 9:15 and were putting targets around 12:15.  

 

The options boiled down to these:

 

Two under-sized posses will get done earlier, but everyone has to pitch in and stay busy all morning.

 

One over-sized posse will get done later, workers can tag in and out, but there will be a lot of standing around sweating while waiting to shoot.

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I split to 2.    

 

 I don't think I've ever been on a posse where I wasn't  doing double duty at times. Shotgun reset, brass pick up. TO etc.   

 

 I've been on too many posses lately where the same 8 or so people do the chores. One was with a posse of 27.   So I'd rather be done early and out of the sun. 

 

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2 was the right call. Yes we had to keep moving, working but a posse of 20 would have ment we would have been out in the heat much longer. And all that work just made the beer after the match that much better. :rolleyes:

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