Jackalope Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 The east Tennessee weather is sunny and 80-ish degrees just prior to the shooting match. The forecast for the rest of the day shows a "chance of pop-up showers, high of 92 degrees and humid". There are 20 people signed up to shoot six stages. Seven or eight of these folks have at least some experience as a timer operator and has been a posse leader before. Three of them have gone on the walk-through. Of the remaining shooters, one is a frontiersman, one has never tried cowboy shooting before, but he's seen it on YouTube and one is a current world champion shooter. Do you split into two posses of ten? Do you have one posse of twenty? You make the call. Jackalope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 JACKALOPE, Knowing some of the particulars, I would opt for 2 posse's. (Sorri I couldn't be there Saturday. I was pre-occupied with family stuff) ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 My vote would be to split, put the new shooter and the Frontiersman on different posses and if you can make the new shooter show he can safely handle his guns safely before the match starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 I would split to two posses. You have the people to cover essential tasks, plus enough to pick brass and cover the ULT. Two posses will be done much earlier before the weather extremes get too bad-- assuming a morning start. With one large posse and +- 40 min stages, people will be standing around sweating in the heat humidity, waiting for their turn. Others will have different views, I am sure. This morning we shot one posse of 13. We had more than enough to cover tasking, and finished the 5 stages at 10:45 AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 First, I would want to be on the posse with the champ just or the opportunity to watch. If it is already 80 at 9AM and the high is forecast a 92... And humid. And popups are more likely as the temperature rises... Split. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Two posse's of 10. Put the frontiersman and the new shooter on different posse's, if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: ... With one large posse and +- 40 min stages, people will be standing around sweating in the heat humidity, waiting for their turn. Others will have different views, I am sure. It is different in the winter here, when it might be 42 at 9AM with a high of 72. In that case, don't split. It's a great day that keeps getting better as the sun rises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazoo City Gal Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 I want one posse. More people to wrangle brass, run the timer, be ready at the loading table. Sounds much more efficient to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Depends on how many are capable of posse chores. If everyone is capable of spotting (I know some people that do not spot due to poor eyesight/hearing), at least 2 people willing to pick brass, and 2 to run the timer, then the best option is to split into 2 posses. After the stage is read and given a large enough loading table have everyone load their rifles and pistols. Everyone leaves their shotgun either in a vertical rack or in their carts. The Frontiersman will have time to reload and the new guy can be mentored. After shooting and guns are cleared have everyone put them in their cart and immediately come back to do posse chores. All other tasks wait till after the stage is over. Now you don't have to constantly pause because there is no one to take over posse chores. You have 6 people doing posse chores, ( TO, 3 spotters, Unloading table, Brass Picker) 1 Shooter, 1 unloading their guns, 1 on deck and one floater. Take extra time between stages to let people get a drink, refill bullet blocks, swab SG chambers, gauge shotgun shells, sort empty brass and pick their noses. This only works when you have people that can take direction and stay on task. Have just one person that drops the ball and you are left with a bunch of people standing around and not enough workers. Explain the above at the shooters meeting. If everyone cannot agree to the above conditions then 1 large posse is the only viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 I MD a match a small group once a month that makes the above work flawlessly every month. I also shoot with another club that makes small posses a pleasure to shoot on because everyone knows what to do and steps up to do posse chores. Done it with a few as 5 shooters. Takes more time between shooters and between stages but the end result is we are done shooting before it gets too hot. If we had 1 large posse we would all roast in the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 Run one posse. Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 15, 2021 Share Posted August 15, 2021 49 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: ...Take extra time between stages to let people get a drink, refill bullet blocks, swab SG chambers, gauge shotgun shells, sort empty brass and pick their noses... Public service announcement: wash hands before picking nose (lead, ya know). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I don't have the answer, but if we get split up, I hope I get picked for @Jackalope posse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 43 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Run one posse. Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal. Phantom The meds I'm on don't allow me to spend much time in the heat. I get heat exhaustion really easy. It ain't related to hydration. So for me, split into 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Seems like we frequently have this happen at our monthly match. About 1/2 want to split, other 1/2 want one big posse. I’ve heard shooters on both sides mutter….I may go home if they dont/do split. This very thing creates the most controversy in our club. what’s really crazy is one club I’ve shot at split into 3 posses at 27 shooters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I think a posse of ten is too short. In a perfect world the number 10 works but I do not live in a perfect world. I think 12-14 shooters on a posse is a better fit. I shoot Frontiersman and watch the ULT for about 2-3 shooters and then help out where needed before I shoot again. In a as ready shooting order I try to go first to not hold up anyone. Just the view from my saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 If the reasoning for two posse's is speed, you need a shooter, 3 spotters, a TO, an unloading table person, someone unloading, and two loaders. That's nine. I think 10 cuts it too close. And I was there. And nobody was goofing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Depends on how many are capable of posse chores. If everyone is capable of spotting (I know some people that do not spot due to poor eyesight/hearing), at least 2 people willing to pick brass, and 2 to run the timer, then the best option is to split into 2 posses. After the stage is read and given a large enough loading table have everyone load their rifles and pistols. Everyone leaves their shotgun either in a vertical rack or in their carts. The Frontiersman will have time to reload and the new guy can be mentored. After shooting and guns are cleared have everyone put them in their cart and immediately come back to do posse chores. All other tasks wait till after the stage is over. Now you don't have to constantly pause because there is no one to take over posse chores. You have 6 people doing posse chores, ( TO, 3 spotters, Unloading table, Brass Picker) 1 Shooter, 1 unloading their guns, 1 on deck and one floater. Take extra time between stages to let people get a drink, refill bullet blocks, swab SG chambers, gauge shotgun shells, sort empty brass and pick their noses. This only works when you have people that can take direction and stay on task. Have just one person that drops the ball and you are left with a bunch of people standing around and not enough workers. Explain the above at the shooters meeting. If everyone cannot agree to the above conditions then 1 large posse is the only viable solution. Don't forget score keepers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 hours ago, John Kloehr said: It is different in the winter here, when it might be 42 at 9AM with a high of 72. In that case, don't split. It's a great day that keeps getting better as the sun rises. Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Run one posse. Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal. Phantom What he sez OL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chinaman,SASS32908 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I would go for 1 posse.You never know how many Cowboys/Cowgirls can work especially in a short posse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Scorekeeper and spotting can be combined. Most of the time seems that they don't for some reason. Brass pickers can also spot, but their picking job goes better if they are able to watch where the shooter's brass goes. Having each shooter check the next shooter at the unloading table eliminates a permanent person there. Some people don't want to spot or feel they can't do it properly, so that can be an issue in a small posse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox Creek Stitcher Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 Omigosh! I'd do something completely different than all y'all and we'd be home in the air conditioning before y'all make it to stage six. Do one big posse, BUT split the posse as evenly as possible into two groups. Group A shoots while group B does EVERY posse chore. After everyone on group A is finished, roles are switched and group B shoots while Group A works. All they have to think about while shooting is shooting etc... Everybody is happy because they never fell pressured and the match goes really fast. I didn't invent t this. I'm kinda new. But the cowboys I did learn this from down there in SC and GA, they're smart fellas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 One posse. Most likely, if you split into two 10s, some folks will never stop workin'. Ask me how I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 43 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said: One posse. Most likely, if you split into two 10s, some folks will never stop workin'. Ask me how I know. I'd argue that some don't ever stop working regardless of posse size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 25 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: I'd argue that some don't ever stop working regardless of posse size. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 10 is really not enough for a posse in my experiences. I'd run one and we have at 21 0r 22 even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 12 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Run one posse. Works fine at EOT and WR...gives folks a chance to relax/rest. Drinking fluids and resting/shade is important...sun beating down on you isn't as big of a deal. Phantom What Phantom said. 10 in a posse means continuous work for everyone. 90 degree's, high humidity, six stages, and primarily older folks is not a good mix. Heat gets to a couple of pards and they have to get to shade and rest means twice as much work for some of the rest of the folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 Thanks for all your replies. I know if Widder and Branchwater Jack had been there, the decision would have been much easier! I recall a similar thread recently about preferred posse size and I'm pretty sure nobody believed that either 10 or 20 was the optimum number, but that was the choice of the day for us. We opted for two groups of ten. In the course of the morning, we managed to stay very close to our norm of 2 1/2 minutes per shooter. We did not get in a rush, but there was no goofing off either. In some instances we had to pull double-duty, the timer operator had to reset shotgun targets occasionally and write the scores down. A few times when a shooter was detained behind the line by a nature call or whatever, the brass picker or ULT person doubled as a spotter. We started shooting around 9:15 and were putting targets around 12:15. The options boiled down to these: Two under-sized posses will get done earlier, but everyone has to pitch in and stay busy all morning. One over-sized posse will get done later, workers can tag in and out, but there will be a lot of standing around sweating while waiting to shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I split to 2. I don't think I've ever been on a posse where I wasn't doing double duty at times. Shotgun reset, brass pick up. TO etc. I've been on too many posses lately where the same 8 or so people do the chores. One was with a posse of 27. So I'd rather be done early and out of the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Ethan # 94321 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 was the right call. Yes we had to keep moving, working but a posse of 20 would have ment we would have been out in the heat much longer. And all that work just made the beer after the match that much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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