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Shotgun spinner target, all hits?


Dusty Sometimes

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What's the best, fairest method to call hits or misses on a shotgun "spinner" style target, the kind with 3-4 ears or plates that spin the target?  A knockdown is a knockdown, but a spinner is subjective, since you can't poll the Spotters if it was hit during the stage, to tell the Shooter that he needs to re-engage.  I'm asking because I'm thinking of the possibility that 1 BB could have hit it.  Can you say "A hit must spin it" and if so, how much?  As a Shooter, I'd be upset to hear afterwards that Spotters gave me a miss without telling me.

 

Is it fair to write the stage that the Spinner only needs to be engaged and all shots are considered hits?  It's different than a simple knockdown.  Is this not a good target for big matches?  How have you seen them scored? 

 

Dusty Sometimes 

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Used to use them years ago. Not good for a big match (some would say any match).

If you are going to use it, I would say "engage only" or you run the risk of subjectivity.

KDs are the way to go for SG, no questions.

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For a monthly a spinner can be fun, but I’d be cautious using it at a big match.  If you did decide to use it at a big match the instructions would have to be very clear that it “must spin the target” however little or “engage the target”.  Shooters don’t like subjective calls especially when awards are on the line.  

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They can be just fine to use.  I'd write it as must spin.  An easy way to tell is paint the back side of the target a bright color. 

 

 Remember the little shooters just have to hit the target.  

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We use spinners.  “Spinner must move” is written into the stage description.  No complaints, not a big deal.

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Especially for a "big" match - a spinner should only be engaged once by a shooter and it should be in the instructions that the target "must move".

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We tried one of those ground horizontal spinners at one match.  The thing was dangerous.  When the arms were at an angle it would sling lead in all kinds of directions.  Chopped it up for scrap after the match.

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Spinners are not good for matches. As mentioned the "magic  BB" happens alot and then 99.9% of people hit it. I have had to argue as a spotter when the TO failed to notice one of the few times a spinner did budge, but they counted the last ten shooters. At least three of those I would have called a miss.

 

They encourage ambiguity, partially from the design themselves. People naturally shoot at the center of the target, which is the axle and does not generally move the spinner or well. Is a hit on the axle a hit, or is it the paddles on the end of the arms? 

 

At the very least, include it must move. 

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When I use ANY shotgun target other than a knockdown or a bird, I make it clear that if the shotgun goes off in the general direction or Zip code of the target, that it is a hit! I rarely use any shotgun target that requires a Ouija Board to determine if it was hit!

 

Snakebite 

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1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

When I use ANY shotgun target other than a knockdown or a bird, I make it clear that if the shotgun goes off in the general direction or Zip code of the target, that it is a hit! I rarely use any shotgun target that requires a Ouija Board to determine if it was hit!

 

Snakebite 

exactly

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1 hour ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

Zakly

I fixed it fer ya, this is the correct SE Texas pronunzifikashun spelling! :D

 

Kajun

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1 hour ago, Krazy Kajun said:

I fixed it fer ya, this is the correct SE Texas pronunzifikashun spelling! :D

 

Kajun

I appreciate that KK but since Doug is from, well, the fer west, I did not want to mess up his tinkn,  and dem otters who just don't get "our" lingo.

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I thought the thread was dead, so I was not going to make another post.  But apparently it is dump on spinner week.

 

We have some accomplished shooters in our club.  Greasy Creek Slim, Willie Mescal, Pecos Steve, Wild Lead, Rusty Hammer, and others.  Most of the time these fellows are averaging less than 20 second stages, with times in the mid-teens common.  I have never heard any of them complain about a shotgun spinner target.

 

We are not completely stupid.  We may be a little stupid, but if we find a target producing a lot of splash, we retire it.  What splash we have comes mostly from handgun targets and regular shotgun knock downs.  To my knowledge, the club has heard no complaints about splash specifically from the spinners.

 

The target plates at the ends of the spinner arms are larger than many shotgun knockdowns I have encountered at other clubs.  The spinner can rotate left or right.  Pick the plate that is facing you and hit it.  A shooter who sprays and prays that it moves rather than making sure the shotgun is pointed at the plate may have to shoot again.  Shooter's choice, shooter's gamble.

 

As the shooter it is my responsibility to follow stage instructions.  It is my responsibility to make it move.  Even shooting blackpowder loads, I can see if the spinner moves.  If I think it did not move, I shoot it again.  I am not going to wait for a committee opinion from the spotters, I am not going to wait until I hear a comment from anyone.  It's my target, it's my responsiblilty to engage it so that it moves.

 

I don't particularly like spinners as opposed to other targets.  When I encounter them I shoot them.  

 

If you and your club don't like spinners, don't use them.  But whining about magic BBs and subjective calls is BS.  Make the damn thing move and go on with the match.

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19 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 But whining about magic BBs and subjective calls is BS.

Right...

 

Until the shooter thinks it moved and two spotters disagree.

 

I've had spotters tell me that it didn't "Move enough"...yep...okie dokie...

 

Phantom

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31 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Right...

 

Until the shooter thinks it moved and two spotters disagree.

 

I've had spotters tell me that it didn't "Move enough"...yep...okie dokie...

 

Phantom


Spotter’s judgement is official in any such disagreement.  The next time the shooter encounters a spinner he/she will probably make darn sure the spinner moves.  Problem solved.

 

Or the shooter can appeal, or go home in a pout.

 

Which would you do?

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15 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:


Spotter’s judgement is official in any such disagreement.  The next time the shooter encounters a spinner he/she will probably make darn sure the spinner moves.  Problem solved.

 

Or the shooter can appeal, or go home in a pout.

 

Which would you do?

Right...I love "Cowboy" logic.

 

So to you, if a spotter says it didn't move "enough", then their judgement is sacrosanct. But then on another posse...or another set of spotters, their judgement for "enough" movement varies off from the previous set of spotters. Now THAT'S a consistent competition!

 

But, I'll take your advise to "make darn sure the spinner moves" as soon as you define what "moves" means in clear and precise way.

 

Oh...wait. I see...in your opinion the "Spinner" not only needs to "Move", but it must spin like a fricken Top! Well...now we have another problem. See some will ask what is an acceptable RPM for the Spinner to spin in order to determine whether it was PROPERLY hit...I mean...just a few bb's will spin it a little...but is that truly the Cowboy Way?! One spotter may say nope! Needs more RPM's!!!!

 

And when you say that it spun around at an acceptable RPM, will the Spotter go along...or will he/she go home in a "pout".

 

Attacking folks that disagree with you by saying that their reaction is childish (ie: pouting), is not going to win you any points.

 

Phantom

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