Winchester/Norinco 1897 help.

[Albinoeke]

Hello, i just got a brand new norinco(nia) though it was a little rough (china made) it worked fine BUT after 7 shots it jammed up. After fixing that problem this started to happen. The carrier does not lock into place thus causing this to happen (watch video) unless i hold my hand to keep it from falling or if i remove the sear spring (as if the spring pull the carrier down) but it works ok if i put the sear onto the hammer manually without the spring. 

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/EGyamKdc8Rs?feature=share

[Lefty Wheeler]

Let's start at the beginning. You have a new 97, it fired 7 times and what exactly did you do to resolve the jam and what exactly was this jam? Please be more specific.

[Albinoeke]

What happened was that a fired shell got stuck in the action, as i pulled back to release it a shell from the magazine tube got into the carrier and i had to push back the shell into the tube which resolved the jam. The spent shell i had to pry out with some pliers. Kinda like the pictrue exept the ejector was still holding onto the top shell.

*These are spent shells* 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

It looks like the extractor on the bolt released the spent shell before it reached the ejector.  That left the spent shell hanging out of the chamber.  The fresh shell was correctly released from the magazine onto the carrier.  Since the spent case was still in the gun, you have a jam.  

 

You probably have a worn or weak extractor.  

 

I'm not a gunsmith but I play one in my basement.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

2 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

It looks like the extractor on the bolt released the spent shell before it reached the ejector.  That left the spent shell hanging out of the chamber.  The fresh shell was correctly released from the magazine onto the carrier.  Since the spent case was still in the gun, you have a jam.  

 

You probably have a worn or weak extractor.  

 

I'm not a gunsmith but I play one in my basement.

 

^   This   ^.

OR, your Extractor wasn't correctly position in the bolt face, got loosened and released the rim

to early.

They can do that if the spring is too light or if to much wear has occurred, as B.Bob mentioned.

 

..........Widder

 

[Hendo]

Am I seeing the video correctly? 

You pull the trigger and the carrier drops, but the hammer doesn't? 

Does the action slide move?

[Albinoeke]

3 hours ago, Hendo said:

Am I seeing the video correctly? 

You pull the trigger and the carrier drops, but the hammer doesn't? 

Does the action slide move?

No the hammer wont fall until i hold the carrier up manually and the slide wont move until i press the trigger. It is like the carrier wont lock into the slide.

 

I recently noticed that the gun works like it should if i lock the carrier by hand and pull back a little on the grip. I'll post a video of this later.

[Lefty Wheeler]

My best guess is:

1 the magazine tube is not seated all the way rearward or

2 the magazine tube has a ring welded that stops the slide this also has a spring on it. If the ring was not welded securely to the mag tube it may have let go causing your carrier to not lock.  

3 Possibly the issue is at the carrier it has a rod along the left side that may need adjusting.  You can test this by removing the parts and testing the action with dummy rounds.

The round not extracting all the way as others have said may be an extractor issue.

You have two different problems.

 

[Lefty Wheeler]

Correct myself, you don't have an extraction issue I reread your post if you had to pry it out of the extractor there probably isn't a problem.

[Albinoeke]

1 hour ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

My best guess is:

1 the magazine tube is not seated all the way rearward or

2 the magazine tube has a ring welded that stops the slide this also has a spring on it. If the ring was not welded securely to the mag tube it may have let go causing your carrier to not lock.  

3 Possibly the issue is at the carrier it has a rod along the left side that may need adjusting.  You can test this by removing the parts and testing the action with dummy rounds.

The round not extracting all the way as others have said may be an extractor issue.

You have two different problems.

 

Yeah the extractor works ok, and shells feed ok after i unjammed it. I have tried to remove the spring on the magazine tube but it did not help, it actually got worse. I'm starting to suspect the rod or the hook it moves as all of the other parts seems to be in working order.

[Lefty Wheeler]

If you are able to move the collar under the wooden forearm that is your problem I'm talking about. The spring is a cylinder about 10mm long that has a split and floats on the exterior of the tube.

[Albinoeke]

12 hours ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

If you are able to move the collar under the wooden forearm that is your problem I'm talking about. The spring is a cylinder about 10mm long that has a split and floats on the exterior of the tube.

Here is a video of the collar.

https://youtube.com/shorts/3TM189Tsu90

 

The way it should work.

The slide goes back when doing this.

https://youtube.com/shorts/omh-brHhuVw

 

Ejector works fine

https://youtube.com/shorts/WZo6YJRZqeg?feature=share

[Lefty Wheeler]

The spring should move as your video shows.

The collar that is fastened to the tube should not.  If it shows signs on moving it changed the location of the carriers movement.

 

[Lefty Wheeler]

The video is moving a lot and difficult what to determine.  

It also appears that the spring has more length than required. This may be preventing the forearm from moving all the way forward.

[Albinoeke]

4 minutes ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

The video is moving a lot and difficult what to determine.  

It also appears that the spring has more length than required. This may be preventing the forearm from moving all the way forward.

Sorry about that moving, here's a picture 

[Lefty Wheeler]

I feel this is the area you should concentrate on.  If the collar on the right is secure play with the spring length that may be pushing your forearm rearward.

That's the best I can do without having it in my hands.

Good luck

Lefty

 

[Albinoeke]

1 minute ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

I feel this is the area you should concentrate on.  If the collar on the right is secure play with the spring length that may be pushing your forearm rearward.

That's the best I can do without having it in my hands.

Good luck

Lefty

 

Thanks! I'll try ordering a new weaker spring/take some width of it :-) 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

That collar is way to loose.

It should be a very tight fit to the magazine tube. 

OLG 

[Albinoeke]

1 hour ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

 

[Albinoeke]

I tried to move the collar by removing the spring and use the gun without it again and the collar moved freely, i can even move it by hand now. I guess i better send it back to the store i got it from and get a replacement tube. 

Thanks everyone for helping me out! ;)