Ok here is another WTC with video

[Yohan]

Please watch the video and give the call. Thanks. I do know what the call is because it was on me. I simply want others to see what this call looks like when you have a moment of stupidity while trying to be fast after only 1 year shooting. hopefully others can learn from this :-) PS if you do not know what the call is I want you as my blind spotters :-) Enjoy at my expense.

[McCandless]

 

Well, at least it was unloaded... 

[Captain Bill Burt]

SDQ

[Singin' Sue 71615]

25 minutes ago, Yohan said:

Please watch the video and give the call. Thanks. I do not what the call is because it was on me. I simply want others to see what this call looks like when you have a moment of stupidity while trying to be fast after only 1 year shooting. hopefully others can learn from this :-) PS if you do not know what the call is I want you as my blind spotters :-) Enjoy at my expense.

IMG_8601.MOV

It asks me to download...so I will just take your word on it that is was something wrong.

[Matthew Duncan]

11 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 

Well, at least it was unloaded... 

You're assuming the Shooter and/or the Loading Table Officer were sure only five rounds had been loaded?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Scary 

OLG 

[Hoss]

SDQ if Gun indeed empty. 
MDQ if for some reason gun was found at ULT to have a live round in it. 

[Mister Badly]

What Hoss said. I am just mildly curious as to why you were trying to restage BOTH pistols on the table. Previous stage instructions?

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

22 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

It asks me to download...so I will just take your word on it that is was something wrong.

He  broke 170 with the second handgun

[Widder, SASS #59054]

2 minutes ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said:

He  broke 170 with the second handgun

 

I also appears he SWEPT some folks...... especially Reno Mustang, the TO.

 

Showing unsafe gun handling videos isn't exactly something to "enjoy" at anyone expense.

 

..........Widder

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

First, this has nothing to do with trying to go too fast.

 

 

But this is a great opportunity to talk about the relatively new trend (I said RELATIVELY), of not holstering one's first pistol after shooting it. 

 

Some will say it saves time...and it might under certain conditions. That said, I think it's best to always holster. Why enter two ways of completing your pistol string into your game? You practice holstering...it's what's been programmed into your subconscious...so you're breaking with a trained habit for what? Maybe a fraction of a second?

 

Phantom

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

10 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

I also appears he SWEPT some folks...... especially Reno Mustang, the TO.

 

Showing unsafe gun handling videos isn't exactly something to "enjoy" at anyone expense.

 

..........Widder

 

Hi Widder  I assumed he also swept some people, just didn't say so in my post.

[Tennessee williams]

Cringe moment.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

I agree with Phantom (WHAT?) I don't get the staging of the first pistol only to pick it up and reholster when done with both (yes, I know he staged the SECOND one). I do get, when finishing with pistols, restaging the first and not having to holster on the clock, but I think it leads to bad habits (hence, what we have here). Don't get into the habit and you won't take the chance of sweeping the whole left side of the gallery. And that fake to the right before going back had the TO mving away and unable to stop the shooter from this heinous act. Hopefully you took a tongue lashing (or, are now from Wire folk) and took the "lesson to heart.

[T-Bone Shorty]

Not to pile on, but where both pistols out of leather at the same time?   (Before the other stuff…)

[Hoss]

I had a shooter once shoot 5, kept cocking and clicking at targets. I told him “that’s all in that gun, go to next”. He turned around, cocked pistol pointed at my gut, said “huh”? That .357 barrel looked big enough for me to crawl into! 
TOs need to always remember shooters can and will do some crazy things. Yes more likely to happen with newer shooters, but I’ve seen very experienced shooters do some crazy stuff too! 

[Hoss]

6 minutes ago, T-Bone Shorty said:

Not to pile on, but where both pistols out of leather at the same time?   (Before the other stuff…)

First pistol was empty 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

11 minutes ago, T-Bone Shorty said:

Not to pile on, but where both pistols out of leather at the same time?   (Before the other stuff…)

 

Is there a problem with this?

 

..........Widder

 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

12 minutes ago, T-Bone Shorty said:

Not to pile on, but where both pistols out of leather at the same time?   (Before the other stuff…)

 

This video may help folks understand what the rule references and how to apply it.

 

 

[T-Bone Shorty]

1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Is there a problem with this?

 

..........Widder

 

nope!  As Hoss pointed out the first pistol was empty…. I’am here for the education, appreciate the knowledge!   

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Is there a problem with this?

 

..........Widder

 

 

No. Having two loaded revolvers in hand (not gunfighters or b-western) is correctable before either pistol is cocked.

 

There is no call as long as either or both are empty.

[McCandless]

1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said:

You're assuming the Shooter and/or the Loading Table Officer were sure only five rounds had been loaded?

 

You gots choices...  SDQ if the revolver is found to be empty.  MDQ if the revolver is found to contain any rounds.  Or, an SDQ for "- Unsafe firearm handling."

 

As soon as this shooter got turned around I would have stopped him, used it as a teaching moment, and assessed the penalty.  Was there anything wrong with letting him finish out with the shotgun?  No.  But, he demonstrated that he was confused and had committed a major safety violation.  Time for him to sit down for a moment and gather himself together.  If he was a shooter moving at a speed where I could not stop safely, I would have let him finish.

 

What bothers me is that in the video, no one seems to have recognized the problem.

[Singin' Sue 71615]

I only restage pistols on prop when they START on prop.

I know I am normally given the choice to holster on these stages...but to me, I find it less confusion if I restage from position they came.

I want to keep things simple...too easy to get my little concentration out of whack!

[Widder, SASS #59054]

4 minutes ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

No. Having two loaded revolvers in hand (not gunfighters or b-western) is correctable before either pistol is cocked.

 

There is no call as long as either or both are empty.

 

I knew this.  I was just curious as to why the question was ask about both revolvers being out of leather.

 

..........Widder

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Like I said in my first post...getting into the habit of not holstering your first pistol WILL lead to you doing this when your pistols are NOT your last guns...and then you have to grab your staged pistol and reholster...there goes your fraction of a second savings.

 

Looking for folks that do this so that I can learn why they think it's a good habit...

 

Phantom

[McCandless]

Everybody is congratulating him and signaling clean?  T.O. doesn't see a problem?

[Widder, SASS #59054]

He made reference to 'the call', so I assumed the call was made.

I sure hope so.

 

I will admit that Phantom makes a very good and valid point about the importance of

holstering EACH pistol as you finish shooting each pistol.

 

..........Widder

 

[Lucky Lead Pepper]

5 minutes ago, McCandless said:

Everybody is congratulating him and signaling clean?  T.O. doesn't see a problem?

We only saw part of the video and I wasn't there.  I can say knowing both Yohan and Reno Mustang, this problem was most likely addressed off camera.  Reno is very good about handling these situations and addressing the problem with the shooter.  We just aren't privy here to how Reno Mustang dealt with with. 

 

Thanks for sharing this Yohan...not easy to subject yourself to comments here.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

MDQ for:

Two accumulated SDQ penalties (even on the same stage). *This does not apply to a single action that carries multiple penalties (e.g. breaking the 170° with an unloaded firearm AND simultaneously sweeping someone).

SHB p.23

 

1. SDQ for:
"The use or presence of any of the listed outlawed items, equipment, or the use of a non-SASS legal firearm will result in a stage Disqualification penalty for each stage the illegal item(s) is used."
SHB p.4

2. SDQ for:
"Violation of the 170° Safety Rule/Failure to maintain appropriate muzzle control."
SHB p.22

 

 

[Hoss]

37 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Like I said in my first post...getting into the habit of not holstering your first pistol WILL lead to you doing this when your pistols are NOT your last guns...and then you have to grab your staged pistol and reholster...there goes your fraction of a second savings.

 

Looking for folks that do this so that I can learn why they think it's a good habit...

 

Phantom

I typically do restage on counter when pistols are last. Assuming there is a good counter/table to do it on. If a barrel or narrow table probably not.

My reasoning:

1) it is quicker. 
2) Removes chance of missing holster and dropping gun. 
 
agreed it is not hugely faster. But last year I won my category at Texas state by 1.01 seconds. So every bit helps! 
 

I shoot cross draw, normally like to shoot my crossdraw first, switch hands, reholster with my left hand while drawing 2nd (strong side) pistol with right hand. There is definitely a time savings, plus a hand to hand transfer and a holstering. 

your mileage may and probably does vary. What works for me may not be best for you. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

15 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I typically do restage on counter when pistols are last. Assuming there is a good counter/table to do it on. If a barrel or narrow table probably not.

My reasoning:

1) it is quicker. 
2) Removes chance of missing holster and dropping gun. 
 
agreed it is not hugely faster. But last year I won my category at Texas state by 1.01 seconds. So every bit helps! 
 

I shoot cross draw, normally like to shoot my crossdraw first, switch hands, reholster with my left hand while drawing 2nd (strong side) pistol with right hand. There is definitely a time savings, plus a hand to hand transfer and a holstering. 

your mileage may and probably does vary. What works for me may not be best for you. 

And I've seen folks put their pistols down and have it come to rest breaking the 170.

 

And I've had folks drop their gun as it misses the table or lands on a discarded long gun...

 

And I've had folks have to reholster after they put their pistol down because they forgot that there was another gun to shoot after their pistol...the point is that you can eat up that minute time savings reeeeeal quickly with any one of these problems.

 

When I think of CAS and shooting efficiently, I think of minimizing variables. Adding a different action (putting down your pistol as apposed to holstering), adds complexity...increases chances of failure. 

 

Yes, of course what works well for some may not work well for others. I just don't see any significant time savings to justify the risk (Yes, I've done time studies on just about every transition )

 

Phantom

[Hoss]

22 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And I've seen folks put their pistols down and have it come to rest breaking the 170.

 

And I've had folks drop their gun as it misses the table or lands on a discarded long gun...

 

And I've had folks have to reholster after they put their pistol down because they forgot that there was another gun to shoot after their pistol...the point is that you can eat up that minute time savings reeeeeal quickly with any one of these problems.

 

When I think of CAS and shooting efficiently, I think of minimizing variables. Adding a different action (putting down your pistol as apposed to holstering), adds complexity...increases chances of failure. 

 

Yes, of course what works well for some may not work well for others. I just don't see any significant time savings to justify the risk (Yes, I've done time studies on just about every transition )

 

Phantom

All true. As Dirty Harry once said “a man’s got to know his limitations “

[Tennessee williams]

1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

MDQ for:

Two accumulated SDQ penalties (even on the same stage). *This does not apply to a single action that carries multiple penalties (e.g. breaking the 170° with an unloaded firearm AND simultaneously sweeping someone).

SHB p.23

 

1. SDQ for:
"The use or presence of any of the listed outlawed items, equipment, or the use of a non-SASS legal firearm will result in a stage Disqualification penalty for each stage the illegal item(s) is used."
SHB p.4

2. SDQ for:
"Violation of the 170° Safety Rule/Failure to maintain appropriate muzzle control."
SHB p.22

 

 

Shirt?

[Hoss]

1 minute ago, Tennessee williams said:

Shirt?

I’m guessing they are “summertime” relaxed rules. 
for me, I still wear LS shirt. Light colored. Keeps the sun off, soaks up sweat! 

[Tennessee williams]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I’m guessing they are “summertime” relaxed rules. 
for me, I still wear LS shirt. Light colored. Keeps the sun off, soaks up sweat! 

We don't usually have "summertime" dress. Could be newer shooter allowance I guess. If that's even what PWB was talking about.