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Duelist times


Johnny Knight

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Hi all, new shooter here.  I've found I have just gravitated towards shooting duelist, just the way I've always shot.  I am curious how the times compare for shooting in this category?  What are considered good times for shooting duelist at the local/regional/national level for the pistol portion of the stage?  Thanks in advance.

Johnny

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Johnny,

 

Welcome aboard.  Duelist or "double" duelist times can be fairly fast.  There's a Facebook page entitled The Pistoleros, which is for those who shoot duelist.  The members sometimes post scores from matches at which they have shot, and the times are very competitive.  I don't have separate times for the pistol segment, but some of the members might.  My guess is in the 10 second range for the pistols, probably less for the faster shooters.

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There are TWO top duelists that I call friends...

El Negro Muerto and Hairtrigger Hayes

Both World Champions...

ENM took EOT this past.

I saw him shoot one stage in 18+ seconds...

The closest 'two handed shooter' on our posse was in 20+ sec.

I am not a competitive shooter, quite often in the bottom third of the pack.

I have shot 27+ stages, but mostly high 30's. I can almost always add 10+ sec to my average when I shoot duelist.

But if that is what you want to do, you can compete with 2 handers...it takes skill, work and practice.

Of course I have none of these 3 things!:rolleyes:

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In addition to the age based duelist categories, Frontiersman and Classic Cowboy/girl are also duelist categories.  Most clubs post their monthly match scores so you should be able to look up your local clubs scores to see what would be competitive locally.  At state and higher level shoots you will need your average stage times to be in the 25-27sec range to place in most smokeless duelist categories.  25-30sec times is competitive in most black powder duelist categories.  The best duelists are extremely smooth shooters and do not waist a single movement.

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I have been shooting duelist since I started shooting SASS, about 23 years ago, I shoot in the Elder Statesman category now.  If I can shoot a stage under 30 sec. that is my goal, sometimes I meet it other times I don't.  I usually end up in the top 8 or 10 of overall shooters.    I use my original 3 K holster set up with a crossdraw rig.  Good Luck  Be safe  Have Fun

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That’s sorta like asking if an automatic transmission will make you shifts faster.   Depends on you and how badly do you want to be quick.  Singing Sue is spot on 

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Thanks for the input all.  I'm pretty familiar with the need for practice, prior experience has been 40 years of competitive armored sword fighting.  Not a forgiving hobby to lay off of training.  I've been following the other thread on advice to a new shooter and note the parallels to teaching and training with the sword work.  I've looked at a couple of the match results to get a feel for things, but there are usually only a handful of folks shooting duelist.  So, I thought I would toss the question out here to see how it compares across the different clubs/regions.  Folks have been very welcoming, and I'm having a blast while I'm getting my guns running smoothly.  Looking forward to meeting more folks in person.  Thanks again!

Johnny

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39 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said:

That’s sorta like asking if an automatic transmission will make you shifts faster.   Depends on you and how badly do you want to be quick.  Singing Sue is spot on 

Of course, YOU SIR need to be on my list too!!!:wub:

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Johnny...looks like you are near a great group of folks! Texas Ten Horns has world Champion Hairtrigger Hayes...among other great duelist...

Mr.. Fingers in FCD...

 

CAC is coming the end of September at Badlands Bar 3...English, Tx.

I think it is only 2 hours from you! Come out and meet some folks!!!

Get in touch with Tbone or Ellie!!!

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Shooting duelist is not quite as fast as two handed but can be fast.  Like so many other things a lot depends on you, your equipment, and to some degree your age.  A lowered hammer makes the reach shorter, perceived recoil effects follow on shots, muscle memory, the ability to holster and unholster at the same time all amount to time.  BP shooters have to contend with smoke and Frontiersman, well that’s a whole ‘nother animal, smoke, hot cap fragments, jambs, not to mention most of us don’t use slicked up guns (just polished internals).  But, as Sue said, if you enjoy it do it and don’t worry about your times, just have fun and the speed will come with experience. 

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There are too many variables to come up with a number. 

 

For example, Duelist times will be further from two handed shooters when there are multiple hits on a single target vs. stages with single hit targets.

 

I shoot FCD and generally like to be 3 or 4 secs off the top 2 handed smokeless shooters...at BIG matches with the VERY BEST, I'll take 6-8 seconds off their times...smokeless, two-handed...and young will always kick my ass!!

 

Shooting Duelist is a challenge...and fun. Enjoy!

 

Phantom

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3 hours ago, Johnny Knight said:

Hi all, new shooter here.  I've found I have just gravitated towards shooting duelist, just the way I've always shot.  I am curious how the times compare for shooting in this category?  What are considered good times for shooting duelist at the local/regional/national level for the pistol portion of the stage?  Thanks in advance.

Johnny

 

A good way of comparing duelist times against two-handed grip or gunfighter times, smokeless vs blackpowder, is to look at the End of Trail results posted on the SASS main page.  It gives you a complete breakdown of scores by category, going back to 2015.  

https://www.sassnet.com/EoT/results.php

 

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Thanks for the links, I had looked at this years' results, but hadn't seen the other years yet.  Sue, I would love to make CAC, its only about 5 1/2 hours away, but already booked to be out of state taking my better half on a road trip.  We're starting at the headwaters of the Mississippi and following it down to explore all the small towns for that week. 

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Really? 5 hours???

Hmmmmmm... Omaha John and Complicated Lady are in SS...and thought you were closer to them.

Have a good trip, and enjoy!!!

Bar 3 is worth the weekend trip to make a monthly!!!

Cleburne, Tx then???

Maybe we can meet next year at Bar 3...

(13 hour drive for us...and well worth it!)

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So many variables.  Target distance, size, movement.

 

But a really good duelist can keep up or beat a good to average two hander. 

 

I consider myself a ok/good duelist. Someone like Hairtrigger Hayes I put in the great duelist group. 

We shoot together a lot. If I can stay within a couple of seconds of him. I know that I am doing pretty good. 

 

A really good time for me would be 18-19 second stage. Good would be 20-22.  23 and over I might have had some hiccup

or it's a 6 shotgun stage. 

And I have more than my share of hiccup's . 

 

Come up and shoot with us sometime. Texas Tenhorns. We shoot 1st weekend.

 

One of the best (Hairtrigger Hayes) is our club leader and we have a LOT of duelist shooters. And we all like to help

new duelist with tips.

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Just now, Anvil Al #59168 said:

So many variables.  Target distance, size, movement.

 

But a really good duelist can keep up or beat a good to average two hander. 

 

I consider myself a ok/good duelist. Someone like Hairtrigger Hayes I put in the great duelist group. 

We shoot together a lot. If I can stay within a couple of seconds of him. I know that I am doing pretty good. 

 

A really good time for me would be 18-19 second stage. Good would be 20-22.  23 and over I might have had some hiccup

or it's a 6 shotgun stage. 

And I have more than my share of hiccup's . 

 

Come up and shoot with us sometime. Texas Tenhorns. We shoot 1st weekend.

 

One of the best (Hairtrigger Hayes) is our club leader and we have a LOT of duelist shooters. And we all like to help

new duelist with tips.

Gee Al...you guys keep shaming me for not mentioning you!!:wub:

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6 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Really? 5 hours???

Hmmmmmm... Omaha John and Complicated Lady are in SS...and thought you were closer to them.

Have a good trip, and enjoy!!!

Bar 3 is worth the weekend trip to make a monthly!!!

Cleburne, Tx then???

Maybe we can meet next year at Bar 3...

(13 hour drive for us...and well worth it!)

 

Sue

Pearland is south of Houston.  He is nowhere close to north central Texas. :D

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Hi Johnny

You have got a lot of good information already about shooting Duelist.  Since you are just starting out do not be too concerned about comparing your times to other shooters.  Work on understanding the game, get use to your firearms, work on getting consistant with your times.  Then with pratice and working on trasistions you can inprove your times.  At some point you can set some goals of what kind of times you want to strive to achieve.  I have been shooting duelist style for about 15 years, I tried for a couple years to shoot double duelist style but my left hand would not cooperate so I gave up and went back to transfering my revolver.  If you can shoot double duelist style it will be a big plus in your times and transitions.

Scout

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I find it much easier to miss while shooting duelist than two handed. Because of that throttle control is extremely important. Misses can add up quick and slipping off the hammer and needing to go around again adds a fair bit of time. Practice being smooth and deliberate while ramping up your speed. Dry fire practice will help with speed, but you need live fire to find your speed that you can run clean. 

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25 minutes ago, Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L said:

 

Sue

Pearland is south of Houston.  He is nowhere close to north central Texas. :D

Oh my word!! I entered Peerless!!!

Okay, so James Scott Love....

What club is that???

Geeze, glasses where made for a reason, huh?

Maybe I should use them:wub:

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I'm about 20 miles from the Gulf of Mexico, down where we got 3 feet of rain during Hurricane Harvey over a couple of days.  Since getting started wasn't challenging enough, I've been trying to sort out a lightning rifle (Thanks again to Roger and Lassiter in particular for advice), while learning a bit of gunsmithing on the side.  Plus, I want to stick with 45 Colt, against what I am sure is good advice to switch to 38/357.  So, I'm prepared to just work away at the challenges to become at least halfway decent at it.  If it were easy, it wouldn't be half the fun...

I've finished welding up some shotgun knockdown targets to go along with the rifle and pistol targets I had already set up on some land I've got in Bellville (halfway between Houston and Austin).  Additionally, I've been helping a friend get started by reloading for him.  So, now its just a matter of putting all the good advice to work and just plug away.  If anyone finds themselves down in southeast Texas, I'd be happy to share a bit of hospitality.

Johnny

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Personally my times shooting duelist are faster than my times shooting traditional. Reason being is the transition. Duelist shooting dd style has the best available transitions. For me there isn't much difference in my pistol string shooting duelist vs traditional. One, I'm not a super fast traditional shooter. Two, the split between pistols for me shooting duelist is not too much more than my pistol splits. Granted, I PRACTICE shooting duelist. As Phantom said, When there are multiple taps on a single target most duelist will start to fall behind. Single tap sweeps, we tend to stay in there better. 

 

That's just me. Mileage may vary. Stage makes a big difference. Don't try this at home. Plus any other exemption you can think of.

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2 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Oh my word!! I entered Peerless!!!

Okay, so James Scott Love....

What club is that???

Geeze, glasses where made for a reason, huh?

Maybe I should use them:wub:

Well you were partially right.  Peerless is indeed fairly close to both 10horns and CAC.  I go within a few miles of Peerless when going to 10horns on 71.  :)  TJD will set you straight.

 

Johnny, just pay no attention to Sue.:D  

 

J, you are getting great advice in your thread.  Send me a email or PM any time, might can help.  You can certainly be competitive as duelist with those 45s.  Think of the many Classic Cowboys T-Bone, Dutch, You Bet, Ethan, DHD, Cleve, and many more.  Heck, wider bullet to hit target.  As mentioned by FanTom and TW, especially in single taps.

 

 

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If you want to know, without trying to hit anything, do a 10 shot dump into the berm duelist and another freestyle (used to be called traditional).  That’s how much different it will be for you.

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Like Tn. Williams said I Shoot faster now Duelist than I did when I was shooting traditional. I judge how I’m shooting by a couple of really good 2-handed shooters in our club. If I can stay within 2-3 seconds of them and don’t let Tn. Williams beat me I’ve done ok.  As has been said multi taps make it harder to stay close to a good 2-handed shooter

 

Randy

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2 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

Like Tn. Williams said I Shoot faster now Duelist than I did when I was shooting traditional. I judge how I’m shooting by a couple of really good 2-handed shooters in our club. If I can stay within 2-3 seconds of them and don’t let Tn. Williams beat me I’ve done ok.  As has been said multi taps make it harder to stay close to a good 2-handed shooter

 

Randy

Keep in mind Johnny. Doing OK for Randy St Eagle is winning multiple world championships and whooping up on a whole slew of traditional shooters:ph34r:.

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57 minutes ago, Tequila Shooter said:

And speaking of good duelists don’t forget Bucky Buckskin and Confederate Colt both out of FL.   And to quote @Noz “Leave Frontiersman Alone”

CC, another one of them fast "kids", like Straight Arrow, shooting FCD.  Came to CAC about 2014 and put the whoop on me and was hoping to do the same to Cowhand who happened to not make it (He knew Cowhand and I had done good at EOT 2013 and CC had a goal.).  Claimed he just wanted to win a EOT then go back to Frontiersman.  He hasn't gone to Frontiersman yet.  KIDS!  (Right, Noz?)

Note:  Enjoyed visiting and getting to know CC at that match and told him," I knew some day there was going to be a kid show up and beat me, he was it."  Think he was about 30 at time. yea that's a kid to me.  Since there seems to be a bunch of them kids beating me. :)

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We got some Duelist champs here in Ohio, Stone Creek Drifter FCD and Split Rail, Frontiersman! 

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6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

We got some Duelist champs here in Ohio, Stone Creek Drifter FCD and Split Rail, Frontiersman! 

Rye,

Who are these two you speak of? Must be new comers  :D

Miss seeing Split.  

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