"Big Boston" Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 I went down the rabbit hole a bit deeper than I intended to on this project. At the last shoot I learned that a fellow Cowboy and I both load our 45 Colt ammo with Trail Boss, The other shooter loads his ammunition with 5.4 grains and I load mine with 5.3 grains. I cast my own bullets with a LEE 452-255 RF mould and Cody uses a commercially cast 250 grain bullet. Semantics aside, pretty near an identical load. I picked a Remington 2 ½ LP primer for my loads, as this primer has worked fairly decently in my 44-40 reloads. I hadn't experimented much with this load, it was a "Load and Go Shooting" deal. Interestingly the other Cowboy uses a Federal 150 LP primer, his load shoots well, but he didn't have any chronograph numbers. That sparked my curiosity, I felt that I just had to test his load. That, and Remington 2 ½ LP primers are becoming harder to source, so it seemed like an opportune time to do some primer testing. I had my Lyman 310 tong tool set up for 45 Colt, and I was using a Lyman Accumeasure to dispense the powder. The #10L rotor throws 5.3 grains, and only being a tenth of a grain short of 5.4, I called it close enough for Cowboy work. I only intended on comparing the Rem 2 ½ and the Fed 150 loads, but the results begged for some further testing. I tested the Fed 150 LP, Rem 2 ½ LP, Win WLP, CCI 300 LP and a CCI 350 LPM primers. A higher average velocity would seem to indicate a higher primer brisance: The Remington 2 ½ and the CCI 350 LPM primers have the highest brisance of the primers tested. The Federal 150 LP and Winchester WLP primer are in the middle. And the CCI 300 LP primer is has the least brisance of the five primers tested. I only chronographed two five shot string for each primer. One five shot string with the powder against the bullet and another five shot string with the powder against the primer. It would be better to average five strings, but that burns up a lot of powder, takes time and you go through a few bullets and primers. Cowboy work isn't that scientific. Here's the data: Calibre 45 Colt Date Loaded 2021-07-27/28 Powder Trail Boss Weight in Grains 5.3 Bullet LEE 452-255 RF (0.451") Weight in Grains 254 → 256 Primer Various Loaded OAL 1.540" Case ☆―☆ 45 COLT Weight in Grains 106 avg. Federal 150 LP Primer Velocity Av 675/674 Es 24.5/35.6 Sd 5.65/13 Shots 5>/5< Remington 2 ½ Primer Velocity Av 699.7/694 Es 25/23.4 Sd 10.3/9.7 Shots 5>/5< Winchester WLP Primer Velocity Av 675.7/674 Es 17.3/37.4 Sd 6.2/16.3 Shots 5>/5< Comments Powder back string was a bit funky: 663.7/693.2/699/663/661.5 Supposition: a bit of an ignition issue, primer/powder incompatibility? CCI 300 LP Primer Velocity Av 662.4/657 Es 7.5/16.6 Sd 2.64/7 Shots 5>/5< CCI 350 LP Primer Velocity Av 683/706 Es 18.4/17 Sd 6.9/7.4 Shots 5>/5< My observations/conclusions: The Federal 150 LP primer yielded nearly identical powder forward/powder against the primer velocities. The primer gives a bit more consistent ignition with the powder against the bullet, but the velocity spread when the powder is against the primer is still OK. The Remington 2 ½ primer works decently, velocity variations are within reason. For a standard primer it has a fairly high brisance, and perhaps this is why I see it used with some of the larger capacity magnum calibers. The Winchester WLP primer was tied in brisance with the Federal 150 LP primer, but struggled with ignition when the powder was against the primer. I did not like the numbers, I would not use the WLP primer for this combination. The CCI 300 LP primer was a surprise, I did not expect the consistency nor the mild(ish) brisance. It shows promise and I will test this one further. I'm especially curious as to how it performs when it is colder. The CCI 350 LPM primer was an added test. After seeing the numbers that the CCI 300 LP primer turned in, I was curious as to how it would perform. The velocity spread for powder position was more than I'd like to see, but it did gain velocity with the powder against the primer. Normally this is what I'd expect. Trail Boss is, or can be, an erratic performer at times. The rather large flat Cheerio shaped flakes of powder probably resist ignition flake to flake, and some primers do a better job of consistently igniting more of the flakes that others. Oft times the results aren't predictable or consistent caliber to caliber and sometimes a different brand of brass will give different results. I suspect that Trail Boss requires a turbulent primer flash of decent duration. Suitability (consistent ignition) doesn't seem to be related to brisance, there has to be other factors. All the ammunition was loaded with Lyman 310 dies and tong tool. When I was at Cabelas buying some Federal 150 LP primers, I saw that all the Frankford products were 20% off, so I bought the hand held de-priming tool. I used it as well for these tests, and it has my stamp of approval. I'd de-prime the cases and clean the primer pockets before loading with the tong tool. I did have an issue with the tongs, and had to perform a bit of maintenance and repair. Tools wear, and require attention every so often. Lyman does not make the tong tool or 310 dies anymore, my collection contains a few pieces that have seen a fair bit of duty. I hope you enjoy sharing my little experiments. Big Boston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Ya gotta do what makes ya happy... For me with CAS, bang: GOOD. no bang: BAD. I'd rather put my time in working on my BPCR loads; MUCH more to them. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 Standard deviance is what my wife refers to as my expected behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 The Trailboss issues are speculation. As my only powder in 10 different guns using cowboy level loads, including 38 Long Colt, 38 Special, 357 Magnum Cowboy, 44 Special, 41 Magnum, 45 Colt, and formerly a 44 Magnum rifle; I have had no powder issues, only primer problems when the gun was light striking a hard primer (modified JM Marlin 45 Colt rifle FTF Winchester primers). I can use the Winchesters in my unmodified pistols, including the El Patron with light springs. Others are adequate for case fill, especially Clays, but there is no better powder than Trailboss for being able to check powder charge visually before placing a bullet for seating, an essential step for match grade ammo. That visual check is especially challenging with the .357 Magnum rifle cases, tall and narrow with light charge. I get some black on fired cases but nothing gross like some I see at the unloading table. Unfired powder is just not an issue. I have used CCI, Winchester, and mostly Federal, either standard or magnum, again only careful about the 45 Colt rifle needing Federals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted July 29, 2021 Share Posted July 29, 2021 In my 44-40s, when I use "light loads", I use WLPs. When I start reaching the max loads or higher, I use CCI300.s. During my pressure tests, I noticed that the WLP averaged 3,000psi higher with max loads. CCI300's give me good consistent results with Trail Boss using 6.5gr. For plinking, at only 971fps in a 26" barrel, I can still consistently hit a 24" x 24" target at 265 yards through the Uberti Winchester 73' with a 6x Malcom scope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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