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A Little Bit Of Venting And A Question.....Updated


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I have had my car for two and a half years now.  I purchased it new in 2019.  In that time, I have had it back to the dealership 4 or 5 times for some major electrical issues.  It's most severe issue is the infotainment system and dash will go completely black.  I won't have a radio, navigation, know what speed I'm going, nothing at all.  After about 30 seconds, the computer re-boots and it all comes back. 

 

I dropped it off at the dealership Thursday night because I had the "black dash" happen to me last weekend.  I also had a maintenance notice come up so it needed that as well.  I picked it up late Friday morning.  The dealership said they performed the maintenance but didn't do anything about the "black dash" issue.  They told me they would contact the manufacturer's regional office and find out what steps to take from there since they had done all they could do about it in my previous visits.  The dealership said they would be in touch with me next week.

 

I had an errand to run about an hour and a half south of town, so I got on the highway and headed out.  On my return trip, my brother calls.  I was using the hands free system that my car is equipped with.  A couple of minutes into the conversation, my brother hears "Oh FRACK" (you get the picture).  He asked "what's wrong?"  I shouted "I have the black dash again".  My cruise control was still working but I had nothing else.  I told my brother I had to go, reached down for the phone and hung up.  This time, I took a picture of the "black dash" and sent it to the service writer at the dealership with the note "AGAIN!!!!"  It took the about 10 minutes for the dash to come back.  After 20 minutes had elapsed, I started fiddling with the infotainment system to get it to come back.  It came back a little at a time, but it came back.  (First the audio came back, then the radio screen came back, then the nav came back.....)

 

Typically, I'm a REALLY patient person.  I'M DONE WITH THIS CAR!!!  My question comes, what steps to take from here?  Should I insist the manufacturer buy back the car for current value, I take the cash and go elsewhere?  I don't really want it replaced with a new one of the same brand because I fear having the same issues again.  I don't want to take it to anther dealership and trade it in for something else because I would be dumping my problem on someone else and letting the manufacturer off the hook. 

 

What does the esteemed Saloon community think?

 

They had my car for two and a half days.  I picked it up Thursday evening.  They replaced the instrument cluster and the wiring between the infotainment system and the instro cluster.  In their report, they stated the wiring harness for the instro cluster had become "kinked causing stress to be placed on the wiring harnesses".  They are claiming that as the cause of the issue.  {I will take that at face value.}  In my conversation with Honda USA Friday afternoon I reported all appeared to be working as it should.  They said they will note that in the file and if I have any further issues, to let them know.  I still don't trust the car and will take a couple of test drives today with the intent of letting it go, should I find something else.

 

Thank you for all your assistance and encouragement.  That means a lot to me. 

Edited by Calamity Kris
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https://myfloridalegal.com/pages.nsf/Main/a510d1364b15502a85256cc9005da68a

 

I would start there. Sounds like you might have a strong argument, since you have had it back numerous times, and it is arguably a dangerous defect.

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Just now, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

So... just what kind of car is this?  :huh:

 

(And it sounds like a bad ground connection)

 

I didn't want this to turn into a manufacturers bashing thread.  Let's not go there, please.  It's a Honda Pilot, Touring trim. 

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Mom bought a new car in the early 90s.  Immediately, she noticed stuff in the trunk got wet after even a light rain.  A heavy rain would leave standing water in the trunk.  After 12 months of taking it back to the dealership once or twice a month, GM agreed to allow her to pick out a new car, and credit her for the payments she had made on the other one.  It was awful that it took 12 months to get to that, but they eventually they did the right thing.

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1 minute ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Like Doc provided, I'd read about the lemon law.

 

That is frightening. I had a new car in the 70s that would just stop on the freeway or wherever. Luckily, we got it fixed. It was the fuel filter (IIRC).

 

I read Doc's link on the Lemon Law.  Thank you.  I'm going to push that with the manufacturer next week when the dealership calls.

 

Yes it is very frightening.  Last weekend, I was passing through downtown Orlando.  The nav system had me get off the highway.  I thought it might be routing me around an accident.  Then the dash crashed.  I called Uno in a panic begging him to get me out of here because it was not a safe area to be in.  I don't know Orlando very well and there was a lot of construction in the area so it was not easy to find my way back to the highway.  When I got home after that trip, I told Uno one more time and I was done with the car.

 

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12 minutes ago, Calamity Kris said:

 

I didn't want this to turn into a manufacturers bashing thread.  Let's not go there, please.  It's a Honda Pilot, Touring trim. 

 

Calamity,

800px_COLOURBOX23580643.thumb.jpg.3d2cc186f927cf444ee0946c027d2795.jpg...I was thinking it was a...

 

2021_07_24_11_03_12.jpg.af3e7b70d3d225c9c4ba7dccf72e16ea.jpg

 

 

 

 

Edited by Father Kit Cool Gun Garth
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For as many times as the problem has come up I would just go ahead and call the lemon law hotline before talking with the dealer again. Get some ammunition to use on them. 
 

It sounds like the dealer is trying to pawn off the problem. 

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I bought a 2020 Ford Explorer last year. The dealership wanted to sell me electronics insurance. They showed me a picture of the entire wire system for the car. It looked like they had ripped out the wiring for the space shuttle. Guy said this is now the thing that is most problematic on cars.

I didn't buy the package. So far so good.

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5 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I bought a 2020 Ford Explorer last year. The dealership wanted to sell me electronics insurance. They showed me a picture of the entire wire system for the car. It looked like they had ripped out the wiring for the space shuttle. Guy said this is now the thing that is most problematic on cars.

I didn't buy the package. So far so good.

 

This burns my tushie.  Any dealer suggesting that you should PAY for insurance to cover an inherent manufacturing or design flaw in his product is bordering on fraud. 

 

If he cannot stand behind his product, then HE should buy the coverage, and cover your lost time and loss of use as well. 

 

All this tells me is that you, and probably many others, are experiencing similar repeated failures, and he or the manufacturer are getting tired of eating the expense; they can't ask you to pay for the repairs, so they are trying to get a third party insurer on the hook for the costs. 

 

Return the car and demand a full refund; as outlined above, read and use your state's lemon law; if you don't have one, or it is not available to you, sue them anyway.  It will eat up some time, but not as much as repeatedly dealing with this kind of problem.  Notify the USDOT, NHSA and the CPSC of these failures, stressing how dangerous it has been to operate with failed instruments and controls (they could care less about you radio; concentrate on the failed speedo)

 

And remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease; publicize your problem.  In this instance, social media is your friend.

 

LL

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My brother bought a 'lemon' one time.    I don't remember the contant problem, but

on his 3rd or 4th visit to the dealership to get it fixed, he flat out told them they could have it

back and he wanted a new vehicle..... period.

He pushed the "Lemon Law" out on them and they had no recourse.

Apparently, TN has a strong Lemon Law for consumers.

 

..........Widder

 

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10 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

 

This burns my tushie.  Any dealer suggesting that you should PAY for insurance to cover an inherent manufacturing or design flaw in his product is bordering on fraud. 

 

If he cannot stand behind his product, then HE should buy the coverage, and cover your lost time and loss of use as well. 

 

All this tells me is that you, and probably many others, are experiencing similar repeated failures, and he or the manufacturer are getting tired of eating the expense; they can't ask you to pay for the repairs, so they are trying to get a third party insurer on the hook for the costs. 

 

Return the car and demand a full refund; as outlined above, read and use your state's lemon law; if you don't have one, or it is not available to you, sue them anyway.  It will eat up some time, but not as much as repeatedly dealing with this kind of problem.  Notify the USDOT, NHSA and the CPSC of these failures, stressing how dangerous it has been to operate with failed instruments and controls (they could care less about you radio; concentrate on the failed speedo)

 

And remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease; publicize your problem.  In this instance, social media is your friend.

 

LL

 

Thanks, LL.  Apparently this is a known problem because I received a letter from the manufacturer extending the warranty on this specific electronic subsystem to 60K miles.  I will use that in my conversation with the lemon law people as well. 

 

Uno posed an interesting question.  He asked if Honda would offer to swap your car out for a new 2021 or 2022, same trim level etc., would you take it?  I'm not sure.  I don't think I can trust that model at this point.  I would rather have the cash payout and go elsewhere.  Thoughts?

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2 minutes ago, Calamity Kris said:

 

Thanks, LL.  Apparently this is a known problem because I received a letter from the manufacturer extending the warranty on this specific electronic subsystem to 60K miles.  I will use that in my conversation with the lemon law people as well. 

 

Uno posed an interesting question.  He asked if Honda would offer to swap your car out for a new 2021 or 2022, same trim level etc., would you take it?  I'm not sure.  I don't think I can trust that model at this point.  I would rather have the cash payout and go elsewhere.  Thoughts?

Peace of mind is priceless.

 

Honda if you must. However, I agree with you about going elsewhere.  Nevermore for Jeeps. I remember the steering wheel falling the most.

 

I am very happy with my Mazda. I would recommend them.

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4 minutes ago, Calamity Kris said:

 

I didn't want this to turn into a manufacturers bashing thread.  Let's not go there, please.  It's a Honda Pilot, Touring trim. 

 

A quick Google search, and there are plenty of discussions about this being a common problem for years with this particular model.  

 

That said, just about all modern automobiles are so computer-dependent that electrical issues seem almost unavoidable.  Hell... I was with Helen Brimstone and her granddaughter a few weeks ago when they were buying the young lady a new Prius - the salesman pointed out that the vehicle had over EIGHTY computer systems on board.  :blink:

 

And I took the local Mazda dealership to court a few years ago over a computer problem.  I prevailed.  They had replaced the "control module" in my '02 Miata as a recall... it failed, they told me that as a recall item it was not warranted, and would cost me about $2k to replace.  Uh... no.  -_-

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1 minute ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Peace of mind is priceless.

 

Honda if you must. However, I agree with you about going elsewhere.  Nevermore for Jeeps. I remember the steering wheel falling the most.

 

I am very happy with my Mazda. I would recommend them.

 

Uno and I have had several Mazda's and loved them.  The primary reason for buying the Honda is because it was larger than the CX9, which is the largest Mazda.  I may look at them as well.

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12 minutes ago, John Kloehr said:

 

Wow...  :huh:

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In 2013, my wife and I went looking for a new Jeep to replace our 2004 Grand Cherokee.  We were repeat Jeep customers, having had one in the family since 1984.  The dealer knew he was probably going to make a sale, and guided us toward his most expensive Grand Cherokee.  My wife hopped up into the driver's seat, and immediately jumped back out with a look of horror on her face.  "What?" I asked.  "Look at that dash!" she replied.  Sure enough; the dash looked like a NASA control panel.  She wanted nothing to do with the complexity, even if it meant she would have to dial her own phone calls and use paper maps. (Sarcasm)  We ended up with a Wrangler Unlimited, still available in relatively simple format.

 

Car manufacturers are missing the point of electronics; they were intended to make life easier, not more complex, more expensive and more confusing.  If I want to be confused by electronics, I'll buy a new computer, not a new car.

 

We're car shopping again later this year; not sure what is out there that will fit the bill; maybe the Jeep Gladiator?

 

LL

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Ask the dealer from a call from the Honda territory service manager.  Let them know you have legitimate safety concerns with their inability to correct this problem.  If they do not get back to you shortly find an executive email list at Honda.  Don’t be afraid to send it high up, they usually send those down to get action pretty quickly.  The better business bureau also would be a great contact, any company that cares is given so many days to respond.  I would decide what you want….car bought back, repaired, etc so that you stick to that as keeping you in the current car is the simplest and cheapest avenue for them.  
 

above all, be kind and respectful on the phone or email, but illustrate the seriousness and genuine concern you have without threats.  
 

good luck!

Edited by JD Lud
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1 hour ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

And remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease; publicize your problem.  In this instance, social media is your friend.

 

Most local news shows have some sort of consumer help/ investigation program.   Get in touch with them and describe your ongoing issues with a known problem and lack of solution and satisfaction.   Name names. 

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You should see new semis. 2022 Freightshaker at work has 2 giant tablets one where the instrument cluster should be and one beside the steering wheel infotainment system. Plus the Electronic Log Device.

 

Bought my current truck last year 08 f150. Might get an older square body v8 to avoid the microchip issue

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1 hour ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

Wow...  :huh:

 

A software update might fix it:

 

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2016/SB-10075685-2280.pdf

 

That only applies to the infotainment system.  My entire dash goes black.  With my model, they changed the system from wired to fiber-optic.  The dealership told me the second time I took it in that they had problems with the M.O.S.T.  (Media Oriented Systems Transport) system and had to wait for new wiring harnesses to come in so they could replace it.  They did so on the next visit. 

 

Thank you all for the great info.  I knew I could count on you to help.  If you are interested, I'll let you know how the saga goes.

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Me no likee 'lectronics LOL. Well, not when it comes to cars. The first "new" vehicle I ever bought was a 1985 Ford F150. It had the "new" electronic ignition module which for no reason whatsoever would occasionally die. Never when it was running, always when parked and a couple times happened when the clutch was popped and the truck stalled. Then it didn't start. Happened once downtown parked at a meter which was just running out as I stood under the hood fiddling when the parking enforcement officer came by. I hustled to dump some coin in the meter and she held up a hand asking if I had trouble >Yes. Got to go to the auto parts store and get a part. She said no problemo, don't worry, I won't ticket it. Uh-huh. Surprisingly when I returned an hour later there was no ticket, I installed the new module and I was good. For a while LOL.

 

My daily driver is a 2001 Ford F150. MInimal electronics, relatifely reliable. Then I bought BeastieGirl. 2015 Dodge 3500. Everything on her has a switch, wiring harness, sensor, dingus and the gauges are a multi-function display along with a bunch of other stuff. The center console has the backup camera screen, radio, telephone-o hands free and the rest of the "setup screens" for every function from how the doors unlock, which lights go on when it's locked, beep-no beep when locking, dang near everthang. All of it customizable and wisely, I left most of it in whatever default was because I am a big believer in the K.I.S.S. principle.

 

It didn't come with a backup camera and my original plan was to get one that pairs with my Garmin navigation since that's another feature the truck doesn't have. When I went to my RV guy to have the Garmin unit installed, there was an issue with the mounting since for that truck, it was non-standard. He suggested I check with the dealership first which I did. The truck comes pre-wired for the backup camera and all they had to do was install the camera in the tailgate and plug'er into the existing wiring harness. (I bet the nav would work the same way but I'm happy with my Garmins) It wasn't cheaper but it was better. Way better than that Garmin camera.

 

The moral of the story is find a good mechanic/shop and stick with that. One who knows their stuff.

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Calam, yes please, very interested!

My wife's Dodge Charger has one of those screens that controls everything.

I do NOT like it!

My Jeep, of the same vintage, might be the last model year that lacks that beastly screen ... I'd be happy to go back to standard steering, Stove Bolt Six, carbureted, standard shift, half ton pickup, something simple enough a shade tree mechanic could keep it tuned up and running!

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We had intermittent total electric failure with a 95 Buick Roadmaster.  We had it in the shop several times until they found a common grounding post under the dash nearly corroded in two.  

 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway
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In my previous life, I was a certified Toyota mechanic.
After that, I had a brief foray into Dodge (never again), and another brief foray into Chevy (never again either).
My 1991 Toyota truck has 240k+ miles on it,
My bride has gone through two Camrys and is currently on her first RAV4.

Somewhere along the way, Toyota went off-mission and built the Tundra... pity.

I won't own one of those, either.

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One more question. 

 

 I've been doing some more reading on this problem and it looks like most of the people who experienced this have had to obtain legal council to get the issue resolved.  My question is, how do I find a good lawyer to get involved with this?  My area has a LOT of ambulance chasers but that doesn't make them good at consumer law.  I don't know anyone who has had this issue so I can't ask for a referral.

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6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

CK, PLEASE ck out Subaru.

Ima :wub: just loves her 2020 Forrester Touring Model.

OLG 

 

 

I've had 2 Subaru Outbacks.  Both were absolute disasters.  The first ended up in a Lemon Law type situation and I was able to get out from under it.  The recent one had a transmission problem from Manufacturing that Subaru flat out refused to stand behind, even after emailing a few executives.  I'll never buy another.  Ever.

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Regarding legal help.  If you can get in contact with the Honda rep I would start there.  If you are working with them and mention a lawyer there is a good chance they end discussion with you at that point and let their legal team handle it.  I would only bring up the lawyer if you dead end, or document their lack of response that shows you tried in good faith to negotiate.

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10 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

 

I've had 2 Subaru Outbacks.  Both were absolute disasters.  The first ended up in a Lemon Law type situation and I was able to get out from under it.  The recent one had a transmission problem from Manufacturing that Subaru flat out refused to stand behind, even after emailing a few executives.  I'll never buy another.  Ever.

Surprised to here this. Were these bought new?

We are on our third Suby.....

Bought our first in 2003. Traded it in on the 2020.

I'm still driving the 2007 Forrester. 

Would buy again.

OLG 

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10 hours ago, Calamity Kris said:

One more question. 

 

 I've been doing some more reading on this problem and it looks like most of the people who experienced this have had to obtain legal council to get the issue resolved.  My question is, how do I find a good lawyer to get involved with this?  My area has a LOT of ambulance chasers but that doesn't make them good at consumer law.  I don't know anyone who has had this issue so I can't ask for a referral.

Look over Honda Forums for guidance 

OLG 

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Also your states Bar association and or the States AG might be a place to look

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  • Calamity Kris changed the title to A Little Bit Of Venting And A Question.....Updated

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