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Perfect posse size


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Perfect???

1 shooter

1 TO

3 Spotters

2 loading

1 unloading

1 brasser

1 scorekeeper

1 getting ready

0-6 unable or unwilling to help

 

This assumes there are a total of 3 good TO's, who space themselves shooting. 

 

This reminds me of the lyrics from The Gambler   "There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done"

There'll be time enough for talken'  when the shooten' done

 

I would much rather have two posse of 9 than one of 18 for monthlies.  We are talking perfect, then for state+ matches 15-16.

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If only 10 then counters have to do double/triple duty as counter/scorekeeper/brassers/shotgun setters. It’s hard, not much time for gabbin! 
 

we’ve tried splitting a large posse into / groups. One shoots, other works. That helps some, but there will still be a couple that hide out at their cart the whole time. 
 

my perfect size is 13. 

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1 hour ago, Hells Comin said:

U must be getting old if you can only handle A dozen. 

 

Yea, you're right.

But I can still handle Red Knee on the speed SG... ;)

and at this stage of my life, thats about all I can handle.

He's waiting for me to take up the rocker before he challenges me again..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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5 hours ago, Bart Slade said:

 

Wouldn't a 12 minimum require a 23 maximum?   Or to flip it, a 20 maximum would require a 10 minimum.

 

EDIT:  due to "confused" emoticon:   If 12 is the minimum, you would have to have 24 people to split into two minimum posse's.  With 23, you'd have one posse with 11 putting you under minimum.  

Better to go over the maximum than under the minimum.

5 hours ago, Bart Slade said:

 

 

Edited by Mister Badly
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5 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

When we have 18 to 22 ish shooters for our monthly we do one posse but split it in half. One 1/2 shoots the other 1/2 works. Then flip. 9 to 11 people on a posse means everyone is doing something. No time for breaks or gabbing.

 

20 on a big shoot with no brass pick up works really well.

 

1,000 years ago I was still somewhat new to SASS but already on the board of a club.  Due to circumstances I was the only board member available to set up and run one of our monthlies.  We had 20ish shooters show up so your method was suggested to me. Not knowing any better and being told it was relatively common I ran with it.  Halfway through the first stage the 1/2 of the posse that was working started looking for a rope to string me up.  :blink:

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37 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

1,000 years ago I was still somewhat new to SASS but already on the board of a club.  Due to circumstances I was the only board member available to set up and run one of our monthlies.  We had 20ish shooters show up so your method was suggested to me. Not knowing any better and being told it was relatively common I ran with it.  Halfway through the first stage the 1/2 of the posse that was working started looking for a rope to string me up.  :blink:

Well...yeah! Cuz that way sux!

 

:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

1,000 years ago I was still somewhat new to SASS but already on the board of a club.  Due to circumstances I was the only board member available to set up and run one of our monthlies.  We had 20ish shooters show up so your method was suggested to me. Not knowing any better and being told it was relatively common I ran with it.  Halfway through the first stage the 1/2 of the posse that was working started looking for a rope to string me up

It works for us because if we break it down to 9 person posse's there will be 2 to 3 shooters who are unable to do anything but shoot, barely.

We do let the group decide. One large posse, one large posse split in half, or 2 posse's. Sunday there was 1 posse of 19 wiht big bore optional as part of the stages. It was taking 50 minutes per stage. A very long day when it s hot.

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3 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

It works for us because if we break it down to 9 person posse's there will be 2 to 3 shooters who are unable to do anything but shoot, barely.

We do let the group decide. One large posse, one large posse split in half, or 2 posse's. Sunday there was 1 posse of 19 wiht big bore optional as part of the stages. It was taking 50 minutes per stage. A very long day when it s hot.

Explain how running two groups within a posse speeds things up.

 

Also, we ran my posses at EOT with roughly 20 shooters in under 40/stage.

 

Phantom

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A lot of variables.   

 

Temp.  Age of shooters,  quality of shooters. 

 

Now that  my son and daughter are shooting I like the 14 to 16 range.  Gives me time to shoot,  unload get one kid ready/shoot/unload.    pick brass/ reset/ time until the next kid is ready to shoot, get them through,   pick/reset/time then the wife is up.  

 

Last week it was hot with 13 shooters. we had a few of the older shooters struggling.   The last few stages I was  timing, picking brass, resetting, all at once.   Makes for a long day. 

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37 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Explain how running two groups within a posse speeds things up.

 

Also, we ran my posses at EOT with roughly 20 shooters in under 40/stage.

 

Phantom

 

'Theoretically'  a split posse functions with only 1 posse loading/unloading, etc..... while the other posse

TO's, shags brass, and spots.

Then as the 1st half finishes up,   the 2nd half heads to the LT for their turn to shoot, etc..... while the 1st

half TO's, shags, spots..... etc.....

 

Please note I said... 'theoretically'..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

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1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

'Theoretically'  a split posse functions with only 1 posse loading/unloading, etc..... while the other posse

TO's, shags brass, and spots.

Then as the 1st half finishes up,   the 2nd half heads to the LT for their turn to shoot, etc..... while the 1st

half TO's, shags, spots..... etc.....

 

Please note I said... 'theoretically'..... ;)

 

..........Widder

 

Right...now tell me exactly how that saves time...theoretically.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Is there some kind of phase shifting in the time continuum thingie or something??

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Right...now tell me exactly how that saves time...theoretically.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Is there some kind of phase shifting in the time continuum thingie or something??

 

Phantom

 

Nope, I can't tell you how it saves time although I think some folks might believe it does.

 

As for shifting the time continuum, you have to know the secret password for that

information.

Did I ever show you my 'close up' photo of Sasquatch >       .

..........Widder

 

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Right...now tell me exactly how that saves time...theoretically.

 

:rolleyes:

 

Is there some kind of phase shifting in the time continuum thingie or something??

 

Phantom

It does not save time.  what it might do is allow the "shooters" to ignore who is working and just focus on shooting.

Phantom, this brings up your post regarding "Why don't you folks help".

By splitting up the posse when I am a worker I work.  When I am a shooter, I do NOT work!"  I try to focus on shooting.  Now I admit, the TO's cannot be great nor the spotters.  On a monthly, I focus on me when I am a shooter.

Save time, YES, it saves MY time recorded on the score sheet.

Save time, for the posse, maybe maybe not.

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7 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Nope, I can't tell you how it saves time although I think some folks might believe it does.

 

As for shifting the time continuum, you have to know the secret password for that

information.

Did I ever show you my 'close up' photo of Sasquatch >       .

..........Widder

 

Oooohhhh...so it saves time for...THEM.

 

And sorry, I already hacked your password...Sasquatch texted me. He's says your picture is photoshopped.

 

:o

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2 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said:

It does not save time.  what it might do is allow the "shooters" to ignore who is working and just focus on shooting.

Phantom, this brings up your post regarding "Why don't you folks help".

By splitting up the posse when I am a worker I work.  When I am a shooter, I do NOT work!"  I try to focus on shooting.  Now I admit, the TO's cannot be great nor the spotters.  On a monthly, I focus on me when I am a shooter.

Save time, YES, it saves MY time recorded on the score sheet.

Save time, for the posse, maybe maybe not.

With 20 folks, I've never had a problem with enough workers.

 

Time on stage can't really be reduced...except for some miniscule time saved by not having to change workers...maybe...??? But the you have to add time for the Team A to Team B transition...thanks...no thanks.

 

I see it as silly...a solution looking for a problem.

 

PS: My post on "Why don't folks help" had nothing to do with posse chores.

 

Phantom

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16 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

With 20 folks, I've never had a problem with enough workers.

 

Time on stage can't really be reduced...except for some miniscule time saved by not having to change workers...maybe...??? But the you have to add time for the Team A to Team B transition...thanks...no thanks.

 

I see it as silly...a solution looking for a problem.

 

PS: My post on "Why don't folks help" had nothing to do with posse chores.

 

Phantom

Agreed, your OP was about leadership and helping set-up matches.  BUT!!!   some did comment on the operation of the posse.  I was referring to those comments.

 

BTY, regarding your OP, there are too many shoot-n-scoot members.   No need to hi-jack this post.

Edited by wyliefoxEsquire
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21 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

I think you should actually be looking at the number of people who are going to work on the posse, scoring, spotting, timing and picking up brass.   I'd rather shoot on a posse of 10 workers than 20 dead weights.

That’s experience talking!

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Hey Bull,

when they started talking about the 'Perfect Posse Size', I was afraid somebody

was gonna try to restrict your participation..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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It seems like the "perfect" posse size is whatever best suits the needs of the Match Director, given the match size/attendance (and attendees), match/stage designs and time schedule.  Those conditions are not usually similar from match to match, and certainly not between different size matches. 

 

Attendance on some (e.g., monthly) matches often is not known until the cars pull into the parking lot and sign-ups are on paper.  On larger matches there is hopefully more lead time, but you do get last-minute cancelations and requests that can change things.   So MDs dance the best they can with what they have, and they deserve credit for stepping up to that effort.  

 

The choice of how many posses seems to be the core of the issue, and given a choice, the ideal numbers here all seem to be between 10 and 20.   20 can make a long morning or afternoon.  10 means folks have to step up and hustle a bit.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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10 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

The choice of how many posses seems to be the core of the issue, and given a choice, the ideal numbers here all seem to be between 10 and 20.   20 can make a long morning or afternoon.  10 means folks have to step up and hustle a bit.

I don't think ANYONE thinks that 10 is a perfect Posse size...

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On 7/22/2021 at 10:50 AM, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

I know some would like to at times!!!:rolleyes:

Maybe with a mustard bottle, but none the less!

What is that one rule....hmmmmm oh yeah never point your gun at something you go not want to destroy.:P

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17 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Explain how running two groups within a posse speeds things up.

 

Also, we ran my posses at EOT with roughly 20 shooters in under 40/stage.

It doesn't speed things up.. But it allows people to take breaks and that theres enough people to work.

EOT and WR yes 40 minutes/stage. But no brass pickup and the vast majority of the shooters are able bodied. As in they can move and shoot fast.

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3 minutes ago, MBFields said:

What is that one rule....hmmmmm oh yeah never point your gun at something you go not want to destroy.:P

I am suprised I haven't been bonked on the head with a timer!!:rolleyes:

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20 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

I am suprised I haven't been bonked on the head with a timer!!:rolleyes:

 

What did the timer do to deserve punishment?

:lol:

 

..........Widder

 

 

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There was this time...when I thought THIS GUY was blowin' on my neck!!!

Till I saw his face, and realized it was a heavy "sigh"...:wub:

(I had reversed my pistol order...P )

FB_IMG_1590436179697.jpg

Edited by Singin' Sue 71615
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49 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

It doesn't speed things up.. But it allows people to take breaks and that theres enough people to work.

EOT and WR yes 40 minutes/stage. But no brass pickup and the vast majority of the shooters are able bodied. As in they can move and shoot fast.

Ummm... We picked brass aaaand had a bunch of elderly folks. If you have 20 folks on a Stage you don't need to break it down into Group A and Group B... Sorry...

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It's not a deal breaker for me, but I don't care for Grouping Posses.   To me the ideal posse size for a monthly is about 12-15.   The number of people on the posse who can run the timer is important to me as well.  I Posse Marshal a fair amount at State and above matches and it's no fun to have a posse and only have two or three people who are willing to run the timer. 

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On 7/23/2021 at 10:33 AM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I don't think ANYONE thinks that 10 is a perfect Posse size...

Monk would have exactly 10 people on his posse.

Edited by Assassin
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14 minutes ago, Assassin said:

Monk would have exactly 10 people on hos posse.

If we had Monk we would only need one spotter!

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