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Powder Storage Containers


bgavin

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3 hours ago, bgavin said:

This is the lawyer's version of powder storage.
Thanks for posting, but it doesn't help my need to store 4# of powder.

Not so much lawyer as engineer.

 

My other non-lawyer response earlier was to look at Tupperware.

 

Also as an engineer, I would not use glass mason jars (or steel ammo containers). Should there be a fire and they get hot enough to go off, they are bombs. Much better is a container which would easily breach at lower pressures and just let out a lot of low-pressure smoke.

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My comment is the SAAMI document is the lawyer response.
It is filled with legal and safety admonishments.

I spent my entire career as a computer engineer.. I get it.
I'm most attracted to OLG's zip-loc baggie inside a plastic coffee can..
The only reservation I have is, the interaction of powder with the baggie plastic.

My other alternative is the brown opaque quart plastic bottles Walmart sells with peroxide.
I'd much prefer eight 1# jugs, than one 8# jug, but the addition of hazmat + shipping + higher 1# unit cost makes it prohibitive.

[ edit ]

I saw these amber bottles as well.
Glass, brown, inert container, subject to breakage, but air tight.

https://smile.amazon.com/Bottle-Reusable-Labels-Refillable-Bottles/dp/B019J2L3V4/ref=psdc_11062781_t1_B084JH5MV5

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On 7/21/2021 at 5:33 PM, bgavin said:

The old ammo cans were made out of metal.. so I figured coffee cans might be a good substitute.

 

Army and Navy Powder storage "cans" that I have handled when working in a DOD funded explosives research facility were heavy gauge galvanized steel and had a very tight rubber gasketed lid to prevent leakages both into and out of the container.

 

The plastic lids that go on coffee cans won't last even a few months when I store polished brass in them.

 

 

7 hours ago, bgavin said:

My comment is the SAAMI document is the lawyer response.

 

SAAMI is the sporting firearms industry standards committee.  As such, it provides the collective recommendations from the companies which manufacture all the smokeless powder commonly used.   They provide these safety standards for transport and storage so that we don't have to hire organic chemists who can certify for your local fire department or legislative body how to safely store powder.

 

Yes, you can usually "get away" with not following the standards for safely storing hazardous materials at the consumer level.  Most of the time.  But safety standards are put in place to take care of all expected (and unusual) situations the consumer might encounter.  Car accidents?   Major house fire?  Earthquake?  Floods?  Aircraft impact? Etc.  Are all those covered well enough with your storage plan that does not follow industry recommendations to defend a lawsuit based on your end-user storage of a hazardous material in today's court/legal environments if something does go wrong, whether the causative situation was your fault or not?    Doing something cheap but out of standards can quickly sign you up for big risk.

 

SAAMI was put in place by shooter community demands for better standards in the shooting industry in the 1920s.  I support SAAMI recommendations and standards because I don't want to see either a return to the chaos of the industry that existed shortly after the introduction of cartridge firearms and smokeless powder, nor unreasonable safety regulations promulgated by legislative bodies that pay no attention to practical and cost-effective guidelines which let us use firearms safely and with reasonable costs and inconveniences.   We've seen too much of those reactions from government already.    Just my personal opinion.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

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I could follow SAAMI to the letter, and would still die broke in a CA court for any mishap.
All of which is great tourist information, but doesn't really help me in my quest to store 4 pounds of powder.

I'm not having any success finding empty powder containers, so I'm open to suggestions that will follow SAAMI 100%.
Since there aren't any... I either have to give up the powder, or store in a less-than-SAAMI approved method.

I would make that $1 Mortimer and Randolph wager that SAAMI storage document was 100% vetted and scrutinized by a team of lawyers.
Nobody publishes anything in today's environment without lawyers.
Especially anything in the firearm industry.

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If you were closer i would just give you a half dozen empty powder plastic bottles. A bit too expensive to ship, as they are bulky. Coming down toe the SF Bay area in the near future? Ever shoot with Tully Mars, he could bring them to you, I bet.

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Tully is a regular at our range in Ione.
I just met a guy halfway in Dixon at noon today... sold him 8# of IMR 4350.
He came up from Concord, I drove down from Sac.
He got stung with that $7 bridge toll... felt bad about that.

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I'm in the Fresno area.  I have several empty 8# original plastic  canisters (prior use for Titegroup and Extra Lite).  If you PM me an address I'll ship them to you. 

 

OR if you'll be down this way, we can arrange to meet up.

 

 OR come to our August Kings River Regulators match.  I'll be there. 

 

And if you'll be at the Western Regional, I'll also be there and can bring them.  

Just let me know your preference.  DDD

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Thanks much for the offer.
My lodge master reloads for his 6mm creedmoor, says he has empties.

I found 32 oz Walmart HDPE brown plastic bottles full of peroxide for $0.96 each.
I refilled the wife's first-aid bottle, dumped the rest and am soaking them several days to clean them out.

These are light proof, air tight and non-metallic.
No anti-static coating.
Splitting 4# of powder into these four containers will keep each entirely full until they are opened for use.

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6 hours ago, John Kloehr said:

Hydrogen peroxide is just water with extra oxygen.

Sure, and you stayed awake in HS chemistry classes, too.   It's chemically reactive oxygen cations in H2O2 that make it DIFFERENT from water.  Your claim would make  sodium chlorite (a strong oxidizer and very toxic) the same as table salt, with a little extra oxygen.

 

Please don't spread such mis-info about hazardous chemicals. 

 

Hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxidizer, even dilute.  That is why it bubbles out and sterilizes wounds.  It would certainly be necessary to prepare peroxide bottles by washing and rinsing and drying before use.     But, as several of us mentioned earlier (including yourself), it is usually easy to find other loaders who have retained a few old powder jugs that are so much better for storing powder.  And it sounds like OP has had several such offers.  He should go for it!

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

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2 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Hydrogen peroxide is a strong oxidizer, even dilute.  That is why it bubbles out and sterilizes wounds. 

Yes, as H2O2, it is a strong oxidizer, but when exposed to air and/or light, the extra oxygen is liberated, and the residual is pure water.  It is true that if un-disassociated Peroxide remains in the container, it is fairly corrosive and needs to be rinsed.  But if it has dried, there is no reactive residue or ppt. 

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16 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Sure, and you stayed awake in HS chemistry classes, too. 

...

Please don't spread such mis-info about hazardous chemicals. 

...

I had to retake chemistry in college, did lousy in HS.

 

While one certainly should not drink H2O2, it is relatively benign compared to your other example. 3% solution is sold for gargling, 6 to 10% for hair bleaching.

 

One thing that would make H2O2 much more dangerous would be if it evaporated as H2O2. But it tends to break down as H2O and O2 before evaporating. It is possible to evaporate it as H2O2 (which should not be breathed), but doing so takes a bit of carefully constructed apparatus to develop a concentrated gas form.

 

And doing so requires starting with a much higher concentration than the bottles in the grocery store. At much higher concentrations, H2O2 can spontaneously ignite wood chips.

 

At home, once the store-bought bottle is poured out and the remaining quantities evaporate, there is no residue in the bottle. It is also septic-safe.

 

However as regards your post, my use of the word  "just" in my post was ill-chosen. It was also not intended to apply generally to all compounds. It certainly does not apply to gunpowder, which is also special due to a "little" extra oxygen. It applied only to typical household concentrations purchased at grocery stores; that would be 10% H2O2 max.

 

 

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