Fat Tuesday Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 Do Black Powder pistols like the 1851 Colt Navy Replica's require ATF transfer?? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 I believe cap and ball do not on a federal level. Some state laws are different, New Jersey for one treats them as firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 https://www.atf.gov/firearms/firearms-guides-importation-verification-firearms-ammunition-gun-control-act-definitions-0 The term “Antique Firearm” means: A. Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and B. Any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Fat Tuesday said: Do Black Powder pistols like the 1851 Colt Navy Replica's require ATF transfer?? Thanks in advance Is your legal defense going to consist of "Well, I asked a bunch of pards on an internet forum if it was okay"? They said yes, so here I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 3 hours ago, Cypress Sun said: Is your legal defense going to consist of "Well, I asked a bunch of pards on an internet forum if it was okay"? They said yes, so here I am. I'm not gonna go with a "bunch of pards". I'm thinking that's why the Founders in their infinite wisdom said Let's all have aliases! So even if I name names nobody's gonna know who anybody really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 17, 2021 Share Posted July 17, 2021 A revolver like a 1851 does not get entered into our Bound Book...there is no background checks, etc. There are some local and State laws that muddy the waters...so check that out. But on a Federal level, no FFL required. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Tuesday Posted July 18, 2021 Author Share Posted July 18, 2021 Thanks for the information. I live in MS and the gun laws are more relaxed here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 But if you have all the components (powder, ball & caps) with the BP revolver then you could be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 52 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said: But if you have all the components (powder, ball & caps) with the BP revolver then you could be in trouble. Can you elaborate? Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 25 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Can you elaborate? Phantom I think NCD is referring to this part (265) of the NY Penal Law Definitions: 14. [See also subd. 14 above] “Antique firearm” means: Any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver which uses fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. 15. “Loaded firearm” means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 23 minutes ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: I think NCD is referring to this part (265) of the NY Penal Law Definitions: 14. [See also subd. 14 above] “Antique firearm” means: Any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver which uses fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. 15. “Loaded firearm” means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm. Right...so you mean he meant that the revolver shouldn't be loaded...?? Of course one shouldn't ship a C&B, Muzzleloader loaded...You do know I'm kinda laughing right now right? Thank god New York made this clear PS: I have received Muzzleloaders with no Cap, but a good amount of BP behind a nice big ball of lead. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 muzzleloaders may have powder and ball in the firing chamber at any time. They are not considered loaded until there is an ignition method, I.E. cap/primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said: I think NCD is referring to this part (265) of the NY Penal Law Definitions: 14. [See also subd. 14 above] “Antique firearm” means: Any unloaded muzzle loading pistol or revolver with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system, or a pistol or revolver which uses fixed cartridges which are no longer available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade. 15. “Loaded firearm” means any firearm loaded with ammunition or any firearm which is possessed by one who, at the same time, possesses a quantity of ammunition which may be used to discharge such firearm. TEX Yes I was. I am not sure if there is a Federal equivalent to the NY law but I am in NY and I know this restriction applies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 18, 2021 Share Posted July 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said: TEX Yes I was. I am not sure if there is a Federal equivalent to the NY law but I am in NY and I know this restriction applies here. Shipping a loaded firearm is not allowed period no matter if it’s BP or smokeless . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: Shipping a loaded firearm is not allowed period no matter if it’s BP or smokeless . Rye, I was not referring to shipping of a gun merely the possession of the gun with all the components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 11 hours ago, Nickel City Dude said: Rye, I was not referring to shipping of a gun merely the possession of the gun with all the components. So then it's like shipping a gun with loaded ammo included? I doubt that's allowed! If I shipped a gun with a box of smokeless ammo included, it would be the same thing right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 9 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: So then it's like shipping a gun with loaded ammo included? I doubt that's allowed! If I shipped a gun with a box of smokeless ammo included, it would be the same thing right? Rye, in order to ship a PB gun with all the components you would also need a Hazmat license because of the powder and caps. When shipping a gun with smokeless cartridges (not in the gun) already made up I think you could get away with labeling it ORM-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 4 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said: Rye, in order to ship a PB gun with all the components you would also need a Hazmat license because of the powder and caps. When shipping a gun with smokeless cartridges (not in the gun) already made up I think you could get away with labeling it ORM-D What you're saying is true but think you would have to ship firearm and ammo separately. (???) When I worked at a gun shop/range part time 10 years ago, that's how we had to do it but it hardly ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickel City Dude Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: What you're saying is true but think you would have to ship firearm and ammo separately. (???) When I worked at a gun shop/range part time 10 years ago, that's how we had to do it but it hardly ever happened. Yes, I have never had a situation where I wanted to ship both a gun and ammo in the same box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 19, 2021 Share Posted July 19, 2021 52 minutes ago, Nickel City Dude said: Rye, in order to ship a PB gun with all the components you would also need a Hazmat license because of the powder and caps. When shipping a gun with smokeless cartridges (not in the gun) already made up I think you could get away with labeling it ORM-D Handgun - expedited services Ammo - ground Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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