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1860 Pietta Army Sheriff wont cock


Andrew381

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Hello friends. I bought an 1860 Pietta Army/Sheriff and the first time I put it back together (after taking it apart) the hammer wont pull back now. I made sure the cylinder was seated right and it still does this. If you have any suggestions I would GREATLY appreciate it. Thank you : )

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Well,  if the "last" thing you did to it, was take it apart and "put it back together" you obviously did something wrong.  Next thing to do is take it apart again and SEE what you did wrong.  good luck

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22 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

Maybe take barrel and cylinder off and see if will cock?   

 

Is cylinder bolt dropping? 

 

Check trigger bolt spring to see if in right.   Sometimes it can lock up the action.

It cocks fine when I have the cylinder off. But as soon as I put it back on lock everything into place with the gun back together it will no longer pull back.

 

Thanks!

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If the hammer will not cock at all when the cylinder is in place it sounds like the bolt is not resetting.  So when you try to cock the gun the hand is pushing on the cylinder but the bolt is not retracting so you can't pull the hammer back.  If you are reasonably handy you can put a little clearance in the bolt leg where it rides over the hammer cam.  If you don't know what you are doing take it to someone that does.  What is a little strange is that it worked before you messed with it.

P1010997.jpeg

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49 minutes ago, Andrew381 said:

Nothing fancy just a very basic cleaning.  I didn't undue any screws. 

 

Wouldn't be something as simple as leaving the loading lever down? 

 

This would leave the ball rammer in a chamber and lock up the gun. 

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7 hours ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

If the hammer will not cock at all when the cylinder is in place it sounds like the bolt is not resetting.  So when you try to cock the gun the hand is pushing on the cylinder but the bolt is not retracting so you can't pull the hammer back.  If you are reasonably handy you can put a little clearance in the bolt leg where it rides over the hammer cam.  If you don't know what you are doing take it to someone that does.  What is a little strange is that it worked before you messed with it.

P1010997.jpeg

Yah, I'm new to the cap and ball scene but I love it.  There's just something about it. I was originally going to get an 1858 but somehow I ended up buying an 1860...then I came to learn that my favorite gunfighter of all time John Wesley Hardin packed an 1860. I've got an Army/Sheriff though and he had an Army. Still...pretty cool. Yah, it worked fine before I cleaned the original oil off it and replaced it with ballistol. It's really frustrating because I've spent so much money on supplies and would like some protection (it's my only weapon). I even did a nipple conversion so that it can use toy cap gun caps because of the cap outage. Anyway, perhaps there is a gunsmith around here who knows them? If you can recommend any I live right over here in Glendale : )

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No, the ball rammer is locked in place. The funny thing is that I took it apart and put it back together just now and it cocked back once and then locked up again when I tried to pull back the hammer a second time. 

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How tight are the hammer, trigger and bolt screws?  Did you tighten them REALLY tight? 

 

I've had cases where I've tightened these screws so tight that it's squeezed the frame together like a vice.

 

Have you been shooting it?  Well could be a broken cap down in the action. 

 

 

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Check your barrel wedge, they are often not fitted correctly. You should not have to pound it in place to reseat it. I suspect the cylinder could be binding at the barrel. Take the wedge out, barrel off, then put the barrel back on and push the wedge until it stops by hand. Then see if it cocks.

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As Crazy Cryder said wedge is to tight.  Rotate the cylinder and see if the barrel is hitting the cylinder.  If not the wedge take the trigger guard off and see if a finger is broke on the flat spring just under the trigger guard. (trigger-bolt spring)

 

It sounds like you are pushing the wedge in to far.

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10 hours ago, Crazy Cryder said:

Check your barrel wedge, they are often not fitted correctly. You should not have to pound it in place to reseat it. I suspect the cylinder could be binding at the barrel. Take the wedge out, barrel off, then put the barrel back on and push the wedge until it stops by hand. Then see if it cocks.

I've done this and it still won't cock. Or will sometimes cock once and then no more. This is again with the wedge put in by hand. As soon as I take the wedge out it will cock fine though. Once that wedge is in...even by hand, no cock or it will cock once and then no more.

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Are you putting the wedge in from the correct direction? Looking from the back to the front of the gun it should go left to right, with the spring pointing to the bottom.

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1 hour ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

Are you putting the wedge in from the correct direction? Looking from the back to the front of the gun it should go left to right, with the spring pointing to the bottom.

Yes, it is in left to right but the spring on the wedge is on the top. That's the only way it will go in because of the screw above the wedge. The wedge is slotted for the screw. 

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55 minutes ago, Andrew381 said:

Yes, it is in left to right but the spring on the wedge is on the top. That's the only way it will go in because of the screw above the wedge. The wedge is slotted for the screw. 

Of course you're right. I head my head up and locked.

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I have had some do this.

Can be the foot spring is not seated correctly.  With the cylinder removed, can you press the foot flush with the frame when cocking the hammer?

Can be a burr in the hand slot, especially in a new gun.

 

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4 minutes ago, Tom Bullweed said:

I have had some do this.

Can be the foot spring is not seated correctly.  With the cylinder removed, can you press the foot flush with the frame when cocking the hammer?

Can be a burr in the hand slot, especially in a new gun.

 

What I called the foot is called the bolt on the Colt exploded views.  The trigger/bolt spring can be loose, bound up or reversed.

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So far no one has mentioned the possibility of a cap fragment rattling around down inside the works and causing intermittent malfunctions.  I would completely disassemble the revolver and at least eliminate that most common of problems before looking for something else.

 

Fixing a problem is like playing cards; one peek is worth a thousand guesses.

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On 7/17/2021 at 5:29 AM, Warden Callaway said:

Have you been shooting it?  Well could be a broken cap down in the action. 

 

I did.

 

15 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

So far no one has mentioned the possibility of a cap fragment rattling around down inside the works and causing intermittent malfunctions.  I would completely disassemble the revolver and at least eliminate that most common of problems before looking for something else.

 

Fixing a problem is like playing cards; one peek is worth a thousand guesses.

 

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If it functions correctly with the wedge out, I would look there for your problem.  If it is a wedge issue, it should bind the cylinder once in, then free up when out. 

 

Check the barrel to cylinder gap by assembling it with the hammer at half cock so the cylinder is free to turn.  I run .004-.006 gap checking with a flat feeler gauge.  Be sure to push the cylinder against the recoil shield to check the gap.  Put the wedge in until it is supported by the frame on both sides but not until the spring lock engages.     Then, push the wedge in to the proper location and check it again.   You may have a burr on the arbor or possibly may have bent the arbor.

 

If the cylinder turns freely during these tests, and still does not cock using the hammer, there is an internal problem.

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On 7/17/2021 at 12:46 AM, Andrew381 said:

Yah, I'm new to the cap and ball scene but I love it.  There's just something about it. I was originally going to get an 1858 but somehow I ended up buying an 1860...then I came to learn that my favorite gunfighter of all time John Wesley Hardin packed an 1860. I've got an Army/Sheriff though and he had an Army. Still...pretty cool. Yah, it worked fine before I cleaned the original oil off it and replaced it with ballistol. It's really frustrating because I've spent so much money on supplies and would like some protection (it's my only weapon). I even did a nipple conversion so that it can use toy cap gun caps because of the cap outage. Anyway, perhaps there is a gunsmith around here who knows them? If you can recommend any I live right over here in Glendale : )

 

When I read this in the OP's post I suspected this was keeping the bolt from resetting.  Since he lives fairly close I invited him over.  That was the problem.  The toy caps were too thick and did not allow the hammer to go far enough forward to reset the bolt as shown in the photo I posted above.  I took it apart to show him what the problem is and told him that if he experiences similar problems with the proper nipples and caps to put a little clearance on the bolt leg where it goes over the hammer cam.  Right now everything looks fine.

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On 7/21/2021 at 4:14 AM, Tequila Shooter said:

@Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Mr. Pettifogger you’re a good man to not only fix the issue but to also show him what was going on.  

Yes, he is.

 

I talked to the manufacturer of the nipples and he had no idea beforehand that they wouldn't work at regular size on an 1860 (because he's the first one to ever be doing this and doesn't own an 1860) so he's going to send me a whole new set but .03 shorter so that it will hopefully reset.

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On 7/17/2021 at 2:46 AM, Andrew381 said:

I even did a nipple conversion so that it can use toy cap gun caps because of the cap outage.

 

Please give more details on this nipple conversion?  The nipples?  The caps? 

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