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Robert E Lee Statue


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Howdy,

Good question.

If there was only a way to find out what the majority of citizens think about

this issue.

Maybe someone with come up with something?

Best

CR

 

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I was just thinking yesterday about a statue of a Spanish American War soldier in a little roadside park that was at the edge of Jefferson City. Over 50 years the highway widened and city expended for miles. The main highway cut a bypass loop and the statue was moved.  Then disappeared entirely.   I did some research and found it had been set up at the new National Guard Armory museum in 2016. It had been taken down after being desecrated.   I remember it having a bayonet. 

 

Spanish-American-2.jpg

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Let's just tear down every monument in our republic.  Also tear down most of the historic buildings in New England since many of them were built with money from the slave trade.

Part of a letter I sent to both my CA Assemblyman and my CA State Senator asking for:

 

1.) A resolution calling for the federal government to tear down the Capitol. It is, after all, a reminder of slavery, having itself be built with slave labor.
2.) A resolution calling for Boston to raze Faneuil Hall since it was built by a family that made its fortune in the slave trade, both directly buying and selling slaves, and also building and provisioning slave ships, and supplying the trade goods used to buy slaves.
3.) Rename every town, city, village with "San" or "Santa" in their name - after all, we can't have the State promoting any religion, especially one that supported slavery. We also need to rename Los Angeles and Sacramento.
4.) Remove from any public building or street the names of the slave holders G. Washington and T. Jefferson. And any of the other founders who were slave holders.
5.) Remove from all public buildings, roads, schools, etc. the names of the genocidal racists Wm. T. Sherman and P. Sheridan for their parts in attempting to exterminate Native Americans.
5.) Rename Kelseyville, named in honor of another who committed genocide against Native Americans.

!Faneuil Hall tear it down.jpg

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The Missouri State Capitol building has just been extensively refurbished.  The statue on top is the Roman goddess of agriculture.  There was a lot of protest of putting the statue back in place - being a pagan god.  But they went ahead and did it anyway.  I don't see that it matters much as all you can see is that there is something up there.

 

Ceres_Ceres-page2.jpg

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We are told not to idolize...

But taking down these historic statues...who tell a history, or invoke the curiosity of who that person was, and researching/learning more about what happened in history, is just wrong.

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Father Sierra, Columbus, Teddy Roosevelt, Kit Carson, various Confederate leaders, Pizarro, Cortez et al.  Basically the left wants to destroy anything having to do with Western Civilization.  Makes you wonder when they will go after the Romans, the Greeks, the Eygptians and every other culture that has exisited as slavery was universal and a plague on humanity for all of recorded human history.  If the United States was somehow unique in having slavery the leftists might have a point.  However, given the history of the world it would have been more remarkable if the US did not have slavery.

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They live with the highest standard of living ever, in the greatest nation that ever existed.  They think it just happened.  They think that whatever pipsqueak speechmaker said something in protest is greater than the men who forged, from a wilderness, the nation in which they are free to protest.

Not one of those leftest fools could make anything but another Zimbabwe.  Step on those cockroaches.

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NO - we are not the talliban , our statues should stay , they are our heritage good or bad and we thought enough to eruct them , let them stand and those that are offended have the right to be offended - im rather offended at their attitude to history 

 

besides - they are tearing down my heritage and that ,makes me a grumpy old man these days 

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History can't be destroyed.  It can be ignored.  It can be forgotten.  But it's still there.  And those that either ignore it or forget it, will repeat it.  We're seeing it happen in front of our eyes.

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The statues can be a great educational tool for our kids. We can take the kids to see them, and then explain to them who they were, and what the country's mind-set was, back then, and then point out the things they may have believed in, and stood for, which won't be what we would stand for and advocate today. 

But no, the politically correct crowd just wants them removed. Seems like, to their way of thinking, it is best to just blot out history, and pretend it never happened. These people are judging by today's standards, maybe, but back then people perceived things differently, than they do today. People do things, at a given time in history, for many reasons. At the time they saw nothing wrong with it, or were rationalizing it, and not facing up to the truth.

We used to have tons of cigarette commercials, on television, and radio, back in the day. We saw nothing amiss about it. But that changed, over time, and we don't see them anymore. Some would think it horrifying, to see those commercials, today. The mindset changed. What was once no big deal, is now a big deal.   

Then comes the problem just who decides what part of history is "bad", and what is "good"? My ideas might differ from someone else's so which one decides if something stays or goes? Right now, the people you voted for, or the people that were hired, or appointed, are deciding. You are, like it or not, going to be stuck with the decisions.

This is just another form of censorship. Instead of books, it is statues of people they don't like, and don't want anyone to have access to the truth. 

Removing things, defacing things, disrespecting things, reminds me of what Messiah Yeshua said...he that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone.

Human beings are not perfect...never were, never will be. The Mayflower Compact, the Articles of Confederation, The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, the Bill of Rights, are all truthful documents, and inspired documents, and sacred documents...BUT...they were written by imperfect human beings. Our flag represents the ideal of what these written documents say, and stand for. 

Those that disrespect, and deface, and want to hide or destroy, really dishonor the people that gave time, and blood, and lives, to these ideals, and are really saying they do not want the freedoms these things offer. Bad things have happened, in the past, and mistakes have been made...no doubt about that. But the words point the way, the symbols and statues point the way...and remind us of what should be, and what can be. They are a sort of conscience for the nation, to strive forward, sometimes slowly, but forward never-the-less, to do the right thing. We all need to be reminded of what was, and then it should remind us of what could be, what should be. The statues do that, or can do that.    

Our history is our history....warts and all. There are good things about it, and bad things about it. We should not hide it, or eliminate it, or destroy it. We should study it, learn from it, wade out to meet it, and try to correct the things that need correcting, and also celebrate the things we have said, and  done, and written, and created, that uphold the goals and ideals we all want.  

We can learn from mistakes, and errors, and prejudices, and cruelty, and pain, just as well, or perhaps better, than we can learn from the positive things, in our history. One can't help but think we are depriving future generations of learning the truth, and the errors of the past. We are eliminating the freedom to know, and to see, and to ponder the history of our country. Would that be fair? 

But, the brutal truth may be that all that will happen is the p.c. crowd will have their way, and whatever they think about it will prevail, and the statues, will be removed, hidden, destroyed, and those that disagree will be chastised in any way possible. Some see racism, and prejudiced, under every rock, under every leaf, behind every tree, and in any one that doesn't agree with them. That is simply not so. 

The mindset today, is...you will agree with me, and accept me, and if you don't, I will hurt you in any way I can...mentally, emotionally, publicly, physically, reputation, gossip, innuendo. 

You heard it here first.   

 

There ya go.

 

 

  

 

 

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- Only one society started out in a state of perfection, and it ended when a member of that society let an outsider get them to believe they were being held back by that society's leader.

 

- Every other society has started from imperfection and worked toward what its members view as perfection. The U.S. was the first modern nation to start with the vision of liberty as its view of perfection, and has -- albeit with some setbacks -- trended consistently toward that view.

 

- History cannot be erased, but it will always be, 'interpreted'. As with everything else lately, interpretation is heavily political, and in that vein some interpretations depend on suppressing other interpretations. I'm not sure the average modern citizen can manage to consider two competing interpretations at the same time.

 

- Communists, the Taliban, and some elements in the U.S. understand it's easier to revise history to their benefit when competing narratives are suppressed, and when digging into the background or veracity of the revised narratives can be made unacceptable as being sacrilegious, racist, or ideologically 'wrong'.

 

- Statues and monuments reflect the priorities and heroes of that area. The people who live in that area are the ones who should determine what is displayed, not someone from somewhere else. 

 

- Many of the controversial statues and monuments were created from private funds, and set on land donated by private citizens. If a city takes a statue down, it is violating the terms of the donation and should refund the price of the statue to the family (heirs), and return the land associated with the statue, wherever that land is. Alternatively, before a statue comes down, there should be plans -- AND FUNDING -- for a replacement that has been approved by popular vote -- NOT by a council of elected officials.  

 

ETA: Connecting with Joe's post above -- I believe that a lot of people in the debate have the sense of being 'steamrollered', and have a, 'Where's it going to end?' perspective.

Edited by Ozark Huckleberry
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2 hours ago, Ozark Huckleberry said:

ETA: Connecting with Joe's post above -- I believe that a lot of people in the debate have the sense of being 'steamrollered', and have a, 'Where's it going to end?' perspective.

 

I was poking fun at the selective idiocy of the "ban everything" movement and the blatant display of intolerant ignorance.

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They are also knocking over Statues in Canada.  Our first prime minister, Sir John A. Macdonald, Queen Victoria and even our current Queen Elizabeth ll.

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35 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson and this morning Charlottesville tore down a statue of Lewis & Clark.

 

Our Missouri Capital City and state in general would be in busy removiing memorials to Jefferson and Lewis and Clark.  Statues, painting, murals fill the Capitol building and ground.  Parks, roads named after them.  There are thousands of Lewis and Clark trail marking the highways on both sides of the Missouri River. 

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Gonna be tough to pull down the Jefferson Memorial Gateway Arch in St. Louis:
 

B75C531E-1076-4B4B-ABDC-404E4B965BE3.thumb.jpeg.63da39544d8727fe5909df64548a6243.jpeg

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37 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Gonna be tough to pull down the Jefferson Memorial Gateway Arch in St. Louis:
 

B75C531E-1076-4B4B-ABDC-404E4B965BE3.thumb.jpeg.63da39544d8727fe5909df64548a6243.jpeg

 

Nah, just need a bunch of gun powder( can't say what color, but Fg would probably be the best granulation for this) and a bulldozer.

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The Taliban took down one of the largest statues in the world.  Tearing things down is a lot easier that putting them up.  The church that George Washington attended took down a plaque noting the President worshiped there.  After all he was an evil rotten slave owner.  I guess Julius Caesar and the Pharohs of Egypt are next.  The Pyramids are doomed.

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Two thoughts:

Robert E Lee would likely be embarrassed and appalled that there were statues of him erected after the War of the States.  He knew that his actions, as well as those actions by other confederates, were against the USA.

Two, my input to anyone wanting to tear down a statue is to leave ot alone, go do something great and beneficial to all, and we will put your statue in that place.

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4 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

I was poking fun at the selective idiocy of the "ban everything" movement and the blatant display of intolerant ignorance.

As the Babylon Bee has learned — sometimes just a little time separates satire from prescience. 

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41 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The Taliban took down one of the largest statues in the world.  Tearing things down is a lot easier that putting them up.  The church that George Washington attended took down a plaque noting the President worshiped there.  After all he was an evil rotten slave owner.  I guess Julius Caesar and the Pharohs of Egypt are next.  The Pyramids are doomed.

Not likely, since the pyramids were built by aliens and there is probably some argument out there that mankind is and has been infringing on our intergalactic neighbors. The labor for the pyramids likely came from not slaves but those Muslim mathematicians we used to hear so much about.

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50 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

The Taliban took down one of the largest statues in the world.  Tearing things down is a lot easier that putting them up.  The church that George Washington attended took down a plaque noting the President worshiped there.  After all he was an evil rotten slave owner.  I guess Julius Caesar and the Pharohs of Egypt are next.  The Pyramids are doomed.

Tear down the Pyramids...in Egypt??? 

 

I doubt the Egyptians will have subdued restraint for that one.

 

I can't wait to see the news reel of them trying that stunt.;) 

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14 minutes ago, Dirty Dan Dawkins said:

The labor for the pyramids likely came from not slaves but those Muslim mathematicians we used to hear so much about.

Islam did not arise until about 3,000 years after the pyramids were built.  There is some recent theory that the pyramids were not built primarlily with slaves.  But the Pharohs were still evil rotten slave owners and any monuments to them must be destroyed!  :ph34r:  

 

All of this stuff is lunacy.  I just hope the American middle class wakes up to this BS and reacts before it is too late.

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37 minutes ago, Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 said:

Islam did not arise until about 3,000 years after the pyramids were built.  There is some recent theory that the pyramids were not built primarlily with slaves.  But the Pharohs were still evil rotten slave owners and any monuments to them must be destroyed!  :ph34r:  

 

All of this stuff is lunacy.  I just hope the American middle class wakes up to this BS and reacts before it is too late.

 

The middle class isn't going to wake up. The schools are teaching kid to eliminate the past and brainwashing them into believing all of this woke crap. The parents are too self indulged and narcissistic to discipline and educate their kids to have respect, loyalty and manners...they let the liberal school system do that.

 

Below is a result of parents and kids that are described above. This is a public forum or I'd describe what would have happened if this had been my kid.:angry:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9777571/Viral-video-showing-young-boy-pulling-American-flag-lawn-throwing-ground.html

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Okay....Let's see...

The founder, and leader of Islam, bought and owned slaves, and made slaves, that they captured in battle, and also had women, as slaves...and he even killed one of his own personal slaves. War, and ambush, and ransom, and taking slaves, was a way of life, and was an accepted way of life, for them.

Finally, one of his captured female slaves, offered to cook him a meal, and she poisoned him, for killing her family.  

He made very derogatory remarks about the slaves, too, indicating he thought they were less than human, and more like animals. 

Not my words...you can read it in their own writings. 

Their writings also advocate slavery/subjection/and murder.

 

I brought all that up to say this...that slavery being discovered, and advocated, in the writings of their own documents...well...perhaps that religion should disband, according to today's new hysteria...right?  I mean...in for a penny, in for a pound....right???   

If today's "logic" is followed, it just seems like the attention, and wrath, will/should turn on them, at some point...all things being equal.

 

Will that happen? No. But they have the documentary evidence to read for themselves, if they want to go down that trail. But that trail, and direction, are not anywhere nearly as popular as the issue of an American, and his mindset, back in the day. It is more politically correct to go after Americans, and American history, than look around you for even worse historical instances.  

 

So...where do you draw the line? Who decides where the line is to be drawn??? How far down the trail will this be taken??? 

 

Those that want to destroy, and deface things, have a huge hypocrisy issue...big time. They also seem to have an unlimited supply of "examples" to use as an excuse to remove, and deface things.

 

There was a comedian once that said the reason his people did not laugh very much, was...that it interfered with their suffering.

Let that one sink in.

 

I believe that some people, and organizations, have a monetary vested interest in keeping prejudice, and the sins of the past, in the forefront, and in the headlines, and in the public eye...thus they are the one's that are howling the loudest, and demanding their way the most.

It all comes down to money, and power, and influence...not a "noble humanitarian cause". This is not rocket science.   

  

If one traces back far enough, one will likely find all kinds of less-than-positive things....perhaps even in their own family.

The parents of these people should have put the belt on their be-hinds, a long time ago. This reflects as much on the parents, as on those that are doing this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Nah, just need a bunch of gun powder( can't say what color, but Fg would probably be the best granulation for this) and a bulldozer.


The Arch brings a lot of tourism money to Missouri and St. Louis in particular.  I expect it will be well protected if it is threatened.

 

Too bad those other monuments were not seen as revenue generators.  Yeah, I’m cynical.  Or maybe realistic.

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