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Howdy

Ruger just sent me a memo for the lcp max. 380

They have a conceal carry pistol that holds 12 rounds.

Is that a good idea??

It seems like conceal carry should be a two shot derringer or

a five shot revolver or little auto.

12 rounds sounds BIG.

Is this what folks want?

Best

CR

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy

Ruger just sent me a memo for the lcp max. 380

They have a conceal carry pistol that holds 12 rounds.

Is that a good idea??

It seems like conceal carry should be a two shot derringer or

a five shot revolver or little auto.

12 rounds sounds BIG.

Is this what folks want?

Best

CR

 

 

High capacity sub compacts seem to the latest crazy.  Ruger says it is the same length, height and overall width as the original LCP in .380

 

Everybody has their own ideas and criteria as to what makes their choice of a CCW handgun.  What works in Montana probably won't work in a Southeast's summer. I won't carry a derringer at all and based on what I have seen, most people can't hit a 8" steel plate at 10 yards with a snub nosed revolver.

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11 minutes ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy

Ruger just sent me a memo for the lcp max. 380

They have a conceal carry pistol that holds 12 rounds.

Is that a good idea??

It seems like conceal carry should be a two shot derringer or

a five shot revolver or little auto.

12 rounds sounds BIG.

Is this what folks want?

Best

CR

 

 

 

It's the "Bigger/more is better" syndrome.  Remember a few decades ago it was, for hunting rifles, the longer, more powder super-magnum rounds?  Then a few years later the ultra-fat, short magnum rounds?  All more or less duplicating rounds that had been around for a century.  
Same with carry guns, "You need 30 rounds for self defense!  Plus 5 extra magazines!"  I agree with you, for most situations you will face if you are unlucky enough to find yourself needed to use your carry weapon, a five shot revolver is all you need.  If you really need more, out and about as an ordinary law abiding citizen, you need a shotgun or a bunch of armed friends.  

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The trick is to find something that you will carry all the time and are proficient with.  For years I carried carried a J frame 649 with and extra speed loader, because I was comfortable with it.  Today I carry a model 26 Glock with a model 19 mag in it.  I carry it in a pocket holster (no need for extra magazines).  It's perfect for me; I forget that it's even in my pocket.

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4 minutes ago, Chantry said:

based on what I have seen, most people can't hit a 8" steel plate at 10 yards with a snub nosed revolver.

 

Realistically, how many personal defense situations call for shots at 10 yards?  Or even 5 yards?  I'm not talking about situations that are police shooting, just your ordinary non-sworn citizen.   Aren't most at knife fighting range?  Ten feet rather than 10 yards, I read somewhere.

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My typical concealed carry handgun is a full size 1911 and at least one extra mag. 

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Just now, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

My typical concealed carry handgun is a full size 1911 and at least one extra mag. 

Me too.  Last night was a Dan Wesson Guardian 9mm, with one extra mag.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Realistically, how many personal defense situations call for shots at 10 yards?  Or even 5 yards?  I'm not talking about situations that are police shooting, just your ordinary non-sworn citizen.   Aren't most at knife fighting range?  Ten feet rather than 10 yards, I read somewhere.

 

I have not kept current on what you have stated, but I'd certainly rather have the option for a handgun that I can shoot well past 10 yards, that holds more than 5 rounds and is able to be reloaded faster than a revolver.    I am very much of a "prepare for the worst case scenario, while hoping for the best case' kind of person.

 

If I have a choice between a small 9mm that is capable of hitting an IPSC sized target at 50 yards off hand with carry ammo 75% of the time or a snub nosed revolver that I can't hit a 8" round plate with at 10 yards, I'm going to chose the small 9mm every single time.

 

On edit:  That small 9mm, a Kahr PM9, is shorter, flatter and lighter than a 2" S&W Chief's Special and holds 2 more rounds.

Edited by Chantry
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Posted (edited)

This is how I figure it.

 

Tote as much gun as you can:

 

a) hit with (because only hits count and you WILL be held accountable for any misses)

 

b) hide when dressed in a manner that doesn't stand out.

 

If that's a 2 shooter derringer, then have at it and good luck.

 

Over the last 30 years, I've used everything from a derringer to a 5 inch N-Frame Smith and Wesson revolver for concealed carry at one time or another.  It all depends on what I can get away with wearing and what I can hide.

 

As to spare mags or speedloaders, I don't trust any single magazine to bet my life on it working, so I carry a spare.  The round count is immaterial.

Edited by Smuteye John SASS#24774
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20 minutes ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

Me too.  Last night was a Dan Wesson Guardian 9mm, with one extra mag.  

But if it's a 9mm, is it really a 1911? :D 

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

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7 minutes ago, Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580 said:

But if it's a 9mm, is it really a 1911? :D 

 

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

That's what one of my range instructors said, until I was the only one in the department who qualified with 4 clean targets...two 1911s in 9mm and two in 45 acp.  He shut up then.  Yeah, it's a 1911 :) 

 

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I’ve run the spectrum from a J-frame, a Glock 19, and a 1911 compact. This is over 30 years of carry. 
 

My current, and most likely permanent carry gun, is an air weight hammer less J-frame. 
 

Modern 38s are more than effective. 
 

I’m a believer in 3-shots-3-seconds. More ammo than that is realistically not needed. This is self defense. Not combat. 
 

I’ve practiced until I have complete confidence in both me and the gun. 

The gun is utterly reliable. 

 

Every outfit I wear, short of swim trunks or a birthday suit, has a front right pocket in which the holster fits perfectly. 

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I've been thinking about what kind of gun I would choose for an everyday carry, one I have been considering is The Professional:

63270_PROFESSIONAL_Holster_2048x2048.jpg

Since it was designed by a company specifically for concealed carry, I figured that this would be a good choice for the common man to use as personal protection. Seven shots of .32 magnum would be a better choice than five shots of .38 special and have slightly lower recoil too without sacrificing too much stopping power. It seems relatively affordable, however there aren't many reviews on it so i'm not sure if it's a good choice or not and I haven't seen it in stock anywhere.

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1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 I agree with you, for most situations you will face if you are unlucky enough to find yourself needed to use your carry weapon, a five shot revolver is all you need.  If you really need more, out and about as an ordinary law abiding citizen, you need a shotgun or a bunch of armed friends.  

 

1 hour ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

For years and years, the average number of round expended by a non law enforcement person in a self defense type gunfight has been 3 rounds.  

 

I teach concealed carry classes.

The above are both correct assertions AND incredibly dangerous assumptions.

EVERY gunfight is different - and the words MOST and AVERAGE apply to gunfights you don't happen to be participating in at the moment.

 

Is it likely you will be changing magazines?  No. 

Not necessarily because of lack of need, but because MOST are not practiced enough under stress and duress to recognize a slide locked back or to count rounds or have the motor skills to even do a mag change when a threat is at arms length. 

They will stand there with an empty firearm (aka a poorly balanced club) and die.

 

Having more ammo available to you (in a concealable package) without additional manipulations (mag. changes or gun changes) is never a negative thing.

I understand and agree that additional ammo adds weight and size - But the one thing I will absolutely guarantee is NO ONE has ever survived a gunfight and wished they had had LESS ammo.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ezra Hawthorne said:

I've been thinking about what kind of gun I would choose for an everyday carry, one I have been considering is The Professional:

63270_PROFESSIONAL_Holster_2048x2048.jpg

Since it was designed by a company specifically for concealed carry, I figured that this would be a good choice for the common man to use as personal protection. Seven shots of .32 magnum would be a better choice than five shots of .38 special and have slightly lower recoil too without sacrificing too much stopping power. It seems relatively affordable, however there aren't many reviews on it so i'm not sure if it's a good choice or not and I haven't seen it in stock anywhere.

I have a few Taurus 85s in 3" that I like. They originally had the Taurus "Banana" grips, but I cut them down  

 

040 - Copy.JPG

044 - Copy.JPG

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What pushed me towards a carrying my Glock instead of the J frame S&W was the Aurora, Colorado movie theater shooting.  The wife and I enjoyed going to movies on weekend nights back then.  We always sat on the back row.  I wanted something that had night sights that I could consistently hit a person size target at the front theater exit doors.

 

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but that shooting really bothered me.  Before that, I had always felt well protected with my J frame.  I recently fell into a 3" S&W 686 with 7 shots.  It's an excellent and accurate revolver.  It's very similar to the Taurus and Charter Arms mentioned above.  If I went back to a revolver, it is what I would carry.

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The new Ruger LCP Max is just a smidge larger than their LCP II. Either one is a small, concealable package. I find the LCP II to be well made, reliable and soft shooting and would expect this Max model to be very similar with better sights.

 

I never like the "which is best" type of posts for things that are very subjective depending on many variations in personal taste. I like small guns in the summer when I'm wearing shorts, but if you want to conceal a 1911 in yours, more power to you.

 

Personally, I never understood a 2 shot derringer in modern times when there are so many "better" choices out there. B)

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3 hours ago, Go West said:

Personally, I never understood a 2 shot derringer in modern times when there are so many "better" choices out there. B)

Personally,  it came down to that's all I could hide out of what I had at the time.

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6 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

For years and years, the average number of round expended by a non law enforcement person in a self defense type gunfight has been 3 rounds.  

 

I'm curious... how many rounds on average are fired by law enforcement personnel in shooting situations?  

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6 hours ago, LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L said:

For years and years, the average number of round expended by a non law enforcement person in a self defense type gunfight has been 3 rounds.  

 

6 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:


 

I’m a believer in 3-shots-3-seconds. More ammo than that is realistically not needed. This is self defense. Not combat. 
 

 

Our President would concur with this--during an interview with the Las Vegas Sun during the Primaries, you was asked how many rounds should a magazine have...and he replied "3." :P

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13 minutes ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

I'm curious... how many rounds on average are fired by law enforcement personnel in shooting situations?  

It seems that it's usually reported that about 37 rounds were fired with 2 or 3 hits, non life threatening.

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Howdy

After mulling this over for a day Im thinking I may have been a bit

early in judging this one.

Best

CR

 

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Chili Ron, I look at it this way, how would it feel to need 4 rounds but you only have two?

When I carried a 5 shot J frame I either carried a second J frame or at least one speedloader, usually 2.

When I carried a sub-compact semiauto it held 7 rounds and I always carried at least one magazine. 
When I carried a full sized Glock it held 17 rounds. I usually carried an extra magazine. 
 

Regardless of what I carried I never felt “under gunned” but I never hamstrung myself carrying a derringer because of statistics. If you run into trouble statistics won’t win the day. You and your gun with ample ammunition just might. 
 

Notice I said “carried”? That’s because I don’t have a carry permit here and I probably won’t get one here in California. 

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2 hours ago, Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 said:

 

I'm curious... how many rounds on average are fired by law enforcement personnel in shooting situations?  

Lately it seems like however many are in their magazine, times however many officers are there.  There are exceptions, though.  

 

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I carry in the small of my back VERY Comfortably.    I have a friend who can't, for whatever reason.

Another friend carries a revolver, sometimes a S&W 4" model 29, sometimes a 686, sometimes a 19.

 

My 'small of the back' carry position allows me to carry a 1911 in 10mm (Springfield Ronin).

Or, my favorite is a SIG P320 full size in .357 sig.

 

Heaven forbid, should I ever find the need to hide behind a store counter, my truck, a church pew, or

whatever, I want one of those pistols hiding with me.    I ain't very good with a small, snub nose 

pistol or revolver.   But I am a little proficient with those I carry.

 

I think a feller (or woman) should carry what they are comfortable with and what they feel

proficient with.     Heck, ya got some folks who could stop a perp with a good Ruger .22 semi-auto.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

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i think most of us want this to a last possible result scenario , if its one you can conceal and hit with in that moment it will serve , we are not talking all out firefight in this situation , i wont carry a deringer for the purpose but will rely on a shall revolver or auto , i like my colt govment 380 or my sig 938 for this purpose , again not ever wanting to use it just wanting it to work well if needed 

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I have also been carrying a Ruger 1911 10mm in small of back comfortably.

I recently picked up a Sig P365  with 10 & 12 rd mags. It is a really accurate little pistol.

In  New Mexico You can only carry 1 pistol concealed at a time.

                                                                                                                             Largo

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My usual EDC is a Sig P239 in .40 SW with Crimson Trace grips, I carry a spare mag for it. When I carry openly, either a 1911 in .38 Super or a Sig P229 in .40. And my "always" gun is a SCCY 9mm. Actually, I make sure I have a spare mag with me for any of them. It took a lot for me to give up my SW 642 as my "always" gun.

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Posted (edited)

LCP II (similar to most other other micro-pistols out there)

Overall length 5.17"

Height 3.6"

Width: .82"

Weight: 9.6 oz.

Capacity: 6+1

 

Sig P365:

Overall length: 5.8"

Length: 4.3 "

Width: 1"

Weight 17 oz.

Capacity: 10 + 1

 

Bond Arms Roughneck:

Overall length: 4.5"

Height: 4"

Width: 1.5"

Weight: 19 oz.

Capacity: 2

 

Three times the capacity in a roughly similar sized package that's half the weight? Or 5 times the capacity in roughly the same size and weight? Let me think on this . . .

 

Regarding capacity -- It's conventional wisdom that the majority of self-defense shootings only go for something like 2 shots, +/-. That becomes the foundation of, 'why do you need high capacity?' questions.

 

Along the same line, research by Kleck and Gertz shows that the majority of the time (c. 85% or so), a person defending themselves with a gun doesn't even fire the gun. So if statistics are the basis for deciding on capacity -- why even load the gun? (Okay, that's rhetorical, so chill).

 

But it all comes down to preference, anyway. As far as I can tell, most people decide what they want to carry, and then find the advantages to support their choice. Carry what you WILL carry. Load what you WILL load. Just about every decision about carrying concealed is based on tradeoffs. And there are three useless things in a gunfight:

 

A gun that's in the holster.

Ammo that's in the box.

Cover that's behind you.

Edited by Ozark Huckleberry
edit - font cleanup
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All of these discussions over the years have resulted in me having about three of every CC holster ever invented.  I think I'll start a business.

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