Help hard trigger pull on New Vaqueros

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

I’ve had hundreds of Rugers come through the shop and never felt a pair like this. Even after installation of spring kits the pull is vastly different than any New Vaquero or Vaquero that has come through the shop. They work fine, everything is stock. 
I called Ruger and they sent RMA to have them checked, but wanted to see if any Ruger experts could help me out first.

Thanks, JB

[Frontier Lone Rider]

Burrs on hammer???

[Smokin Gator SASS #29736]

With your experience with so many of them its amazing to get two like that at the same time. Are these straight from a distributor?

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

Do the hammers move backwards as the triggers are pulled?

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

10 minutes ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

With your experience with so many of them its amazing to get two like that at the same time. Are these straight from a distributor?

Used back up set 510 prefixes, bought from a very good shooter.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

6 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Do the hammers move backwards as the triggers are pulled?

No

[Sedalia Dave]

If you do send them to Ruger don't forget that they will remove all non-factory parts and return the pistols to the build they left the factory with. You may or may not get the parts back.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

16 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

If you do send them to Ruger don't forget that they will remove all non-factory parts and return the pistols to the build they left the factory with. You may or may not get the parts back.

Yep, I’ll put the factory springs back in.

[Buckshot Bob]

Home grown trigger job ? Does the hammer cock quite a bit after the trigger engages the full cock notch in the hammer? 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

6 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Home grown trigger job ? Does the hammer cock quite a bit after the trigger engages the full cock notch in the hammer? 

No, all he did was put spring kits in. He put the original springs back in before sending them to me.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

510 is at least 15 years old.  The odds are some not so good gunsmithing.  If the triggers were that bad from the factory it would not take 15 years to find that out.

[Sedalia Dave]

Try swapping the grip frames

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

What was the trigger pull weight? 

OLG 

[Irish Pat]

I wonder too about the grip frames, that might be worth trying, ☘️ irish

[Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407]

510 series was the first version of NMV

 

check the grip frame under the hand/pawl

 

if it isn’t relieved then the hand/pawl could be dragging on the frame when the trigger is pulled

 

Ruger didn’t figure this out until later.

 

I have a set of 511 series that have the relief cut but my 510’s didn’t.

 

The 50th anniversary blackhawks didn’t have the relief cut either.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

2 hours ago, Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407 said:

510 series was the first version of NMV

 

check the grip frame under the hand/pawl

 

if it isn’t relieved then the hand/pawl could be dragging on the frame when the trigger is pulled

 

Ruger didn’t figure this out until later.

 

I have a set of 511 series that have the relief cut but my 510’s didn’t.

 

The 50th anniversary blackhawks didn’t have the relief cut either.

Can you post a pic of this relief cut

[Sedalia Dave]

12 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Can you post a pic of this relief cut

 

See this thread

 

 

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

42 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

See this thread

 

 

If one remembers the 510 series were all recalled for timing and trigger issues. Bunch of folks complained about Ruger releasing them before they were a proven design. Yet some folks say they are the best, so who knows?!

EDITED IN : some pard messaged me asking me to clarify, so...... When the 510 series premiered,

Ruger sent letters to owners and ffl's asking to have guns on the shelf or those already sold to be returned. This was only on 45's as 357's had yet to be released.  I don't think anyone got a straight answer as to what the issue  or issues were and what the fixes entailed.

[Turkey Flats Jack]

3 minutes ago, Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461 said:

If one remembers the 510 series were all recalled for timing and trigger issues. Bunch of folks complained about Ruger releasing them before they were a proven design. Yet some folks say they are the best, so who knows?!

 

They ones in my post are 513 series. Only pair of nmv I have. Never an issue with my omv's though. 

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Here is a pic of the relief cut. There is a shinny long dimple on the rear edge of the cut.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

3 hours ago, Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407 said:

510 series was the first version of NMV

 

check the grip frame under the hand/pawl

 

if it isn’t relieved then the hand/pawl could be dragging on the frame when the trigger is pulled

 

Ruger didn’t figure this out until later.

 

I have a set of 511 series that have the relief cut but my 510’s didn’t.

 

The 50th anniversary blackhawks didn’t have the relief cut either.

I'm confused, as usual.

I can understand how a dragging pawl/hand would affect hammer draw or cylinder latching at the bolt,  but I can't envision it affecting the sear or trigger pull.  What am I misunderstanding?

 

(I can certainly see how a drag on the transfer bar could affect trigger pull weight, however.  But I'm unfamiliar with the series here and don't even know if they have a transfer bar)

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

20 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Here is a pic of the relief cut. There is a shinny long dimple on the rear edge of the cut.

So do I make this cut a little deeper with heaven forbid a dremmel with round diamond ball bit?

[Dutch Nichols, SASS #6461]

OH NO.....NOT THE DREADED DREMEL TOOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

seriously I'm sure JB knows what he's doing, I just couldn't resist!

[Sedalia Dave]

9 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

So do I make this cut a little deeper with heaven forbid a dremmel with round diamond ball bit?

 

I would color the area with a sharpie; reassemble and cycle a couple times, Then disassemble and see it it is hitting.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

2 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

I would color the area with a sharpie; reassemble and cycle a couple times, Then disassemble and see it it is hitting.

It’s definitely hitting something has rubbed it shinny

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

44 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Here is a pic of the relief cut. There is a shinny long dimple on the rear edge of the cut.

I had to deepen that cut a little bit when I installed SBH hammers in my wife's  NMV's.

OLG 

[Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407]

37 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

So do I make this cut a little deeper with heaven forbid a dremmel with round diamond ball bit?

Deeper or wider depending on where it’s rubbing.

 

Another thought, is there any transfer bar pinch?

 

Doesn’t make the trigger pull harder but pinch can make the trigger let off seem grittier and even make the trigger seem to jump when released.

[Cypress Sam, SASS #10915]

Before you grind, take the pawl out and see if that affects the trigger pull.  If the pull lightens, the tail of the pawl is possibly binding causing extra force on the trigger in order to overcome the bind.  If that’s the case, you could also just grind a little off of the tit on the pawl that hits the frame.  Not too much tho or you won’t have a free spin cylinder.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

Well I cleaned up the relief cut real carefully and put back together, no help. I’m going to try a different hammer next then if that changes nothing a new trigger I got from Brownells. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

Well I cleaned up the relief cut real carefully and put back together, no help. I’m going to try a different hammer next then if that changes nothing a new trigger I got from Brownells. 

Leave the pawl out.

See if that changes the trigger pull.

OLG 

[Chinaman,SASS32908]

5 hours ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

Before you grind, take the pawl out and see if that affects the trigger pull.  If the pull lightens, the tail of the pawl is possibly binding causing extra force on the trigger in order to overcome the bind.  If that’s the case, you could also just grind a little off of the tit on the pawl that hits the frame.  Not too much tho or you won’t have a free spin cylinder.

This worked for me Having similar problems.

[Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L]

13 hours ago, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

Before you grind, take the pawl out and see if that affects the trigger pull.  If the pull lightens, the tail of the pawl is possibly binding causing extra force on the trigger in order to overcome the bind.  If that’s the case, you could also just grind a little off of the tit on the pawl that hits the frame.  Not too much tho or you won’t have a free spin cylinder.

This is what I do frequently on Rugers.

J.M.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

3 hours ago, Johnny Meadows,SASS#28485L said:

This is what I do frequently on Rugers.

J.M.

Just a few passes with a file? How much are we talking about?

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

On 7/3/2021 at 7:38 PM, Cayuse Jack, SASS #19407 said:

Deeper or wider depending on where it’s rubbing.

 

Another thought, is there any transfer bar pinch?

 

Doesn’t make the trigger pull harder but pinch can make the trigger let off seem grittier and even make the trigger seem to jump when released.

The transfer bar is pinching. How is this fixed?

[Dusty Devil Dale]

1 hour ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

The transfer bar is pinching. How is this fixed?

A little CAREFUL hand-filing of the sides and corners of the bar, and the surfaces of its travel channel will probably do it.  I had to do that with both of mine.  Both sides of the channels had high roughness from machining.  

To smooth the channels, I took my time with a needle file wrapped in 220 grit abrasive paper.   After you do that, you will want to disassemble and thoroughly flush the parts, to remove loose abrasive.

 

BUT BEFORE MODIFYING ANYTHING, I recommend removing the transfer bar temporarily and trying the trigger, to be sure that is the root of the trigger pull issue.