Who makes the call

[Ace_of_Hearts]

This is a variation on the treads about coaching the shooter.

 

WHO MAKES THE CALL on a static shotgun target. 

Do we have to wait for the three blind mice to come to a consensus. before the shooter can reengage the target or do we wait till the end of the stage and call a miss a miss.

Remember that - The handbook only addresses shotgun KNOCKDOWN targets in the stage conventions as being re-engageable.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Static targets are NOT re-engageable.

A miss is a miss and should be called as such by the spotters at the end of the stage.

No coaching required; just like we dont say anything on a pistol or rifle miss - that shot is gone.  Move on.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Quote

5. Shotgun knockdowns are encouraged for good reason. Calls on shotgun hits can be speculative at times, with the “golden BB” rule too often used. Re-settable targets of some kind that go down with a good hit leave no doubt and are undisputed. Allowing shooters to “shoot until the shotgun popper is down” rather than taking a miss is in the “Spirit of the Game.” The penalty then becomes the additional time it takes to bring the target down rather than a five-second miss penalty.

MD Guide - Match Design p.4

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Round count for non-reactive static SG targets should specify the number of targets with no "+" .
If a missed target is re-engaged, and all targets are hit, the penalty would be a "P" on top of the miss for "Firing more rounds than specified in the stage instructions."
REF: SHB p.22

 

[Not Dead Ed]

How does one miss completely with a golden bb rule?  
If the round goes anywhere near the plate it might have been hit by 1 teeny tiny bb?  
“If you think it’s a miss, it’s a Hit”. 
 

I’d love to hear as Paul Harvey used to say, “The Rest of the Story”. 
 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

2 minutes ago, Not Dead Ed said:

How does one miss completely with a golden bb rule?  
If the round goes anywhere near the plate it might have been hit by 1 teeny tiny bb?  
“If you think it’s a miss, it’s a Hit”. 

...

 

To reiterate:

"5. Shotgun knockdowns are encouraged for good reason. Calls on shotgun hits can be speculative at times, with the “golden BB” rule too often used."

[Goody, SASS #26190]

3 hours ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

Do we have to wait for the three blind mice to come to a consensus.

I find statements like that highly offensive.

[Not Dead Ed]

25 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

To reiterate:

"5. Shotgun knockdowns are encouraged for good reason. Calls on shotgun hits can be speculative at times, with the “golden BB” rule too often used."

I’d still like to know the situation where the spotters knew it was a miss on the steel plate with a shotgun round….  
either the shooter plowed a furrow in the dirt in front of the target or went sky high over it 

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

19 minutes ago, Not Dead Ed said:

I’d still like to know the situation where the spotters knew it was a miss on the steel plate with a shotgun round….  
either the shooter plowed a furrow in the dirt in front of the target or went sky high over it 

 

Didn't we just have this discussion last week where folks were having a hard time saying how close the shooter had to shoot "where it was" in the event of a reactive shotgun Target failure?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

If you really can't afford knockdowns or other quite visible reactive targets for shotgun (like clay pigeons on hangers),  then the only fair way to shoot stationary steel is 

1 - paint targets between shooters

2 - declare "no makeups on SG stationary steel targets" allowed

3 - after shooter completes stage, go inspect targets for pellet hits and repaint.

 

This, of course, will be slow, tedious and just about impossible if you have multiple posses shooting on a single bay.

 

So, find SOME way to use reactive targets that can be seen by the spotters if you ever want to fairly call out the miss in real time to allow makeups to be done.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

4 hours ago, Not Dead Ed said:

I’d still like to know the situation where the spotters knew it was a miss on the steel plate with a shotgun round….  
either the shooter plowed a furrow in the dirt in front of the target or went sky high over it 

Quote

If you know it’s a HIT….. 

IT’S a HIT! 

If you think it’s a HIT….. 

IT’S a HIT! 

If you think it’s a MISS…. 

IT’s a HIT! 

If you know it’s a MISS…. 

IT’s a MISS!

RO1 p.27

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Hmmmmm...

 

Subjectivity....

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

We stopped using the static targets for the reasons stated.  We had a hanging target, swinger plate about 18" square. I shoot BP, another issue of I didn't see it hit.  I shot my second round at the target and I was off target but not by 2'. I got called for a miss. The three spotters all agreed they didn't hear it hit and didn't see it move, in a cloud of smoke. 

Being the understanding cowboy, I packed my crap up and went home. We avoid targets like this now.

 

The I didn't hear it hit has caused many a miss to be called for BP shooters, rifles, pistol, shotgun.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

When I TO I watch the firearm, pistols & rifle, and count the rounds fired. I let the spotters watch the targets for hits and misses. However with the shotgun, with only one or two rounds load at a time, I will watch any stationary target(s) for hits. I'll call out a hit or miss to the shooter. All the local clubs around here allow the shooter to make up a shotgun miss.

[Not Dead Ed]

2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

RO1 p.27

 

 

Exactly.   It seems the weren’t sure, so it should’ve been a hit.  

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

6 hours ago, Not Dead Ed said:

Exactly.   It seems the weren’t sure, so it should’ve been a hit.  

Your original quoted question stated "...the spotters knew it was a miss on the steel plate with a shotgun round"
That's "spotters" (plural...so, at least 2/3) = a MISS.
THAT is what was asked & answered.

** DISENGAGING **

[Dusty Devil Dale]

8 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

The I didn't hear it hit has caused many a miss to be called for BP shooters, rifles, pistol, shotgun.

Is it an illegal mod to attach wifi directional microphones to the end of all your gun barrels and set up a portable Amp near the stage to help spotters hear the clang?  

(Never mind)

[Hoss]

1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Your original quoted question stated "...the spotters knew it was a miss on the steel plate with a shotgun round"
That's "spotters" (plural...so, at least 2/3) = a MISS.
THAT is what was asked & answered.

** DISENGAGING **

No doubt = no benefit!!!!